Super Mods Puppy Posted July 17, 2020 Super Mods Share Posted July 17, 2020 This woman is a saint...the world doesn't deserve you Britney!!!! 8 Link to comment
Urbanney Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 23 minutes ago, Arianna said: Wow this S is dark ^^^ It feels like the more we discover, the darker and more tangled this all gets. This is scary y’all. 4 Link to comment
Popular Post Urbanney Posted July 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2020 Uhh I just searched for “Jon Eardly” and this post came up on a random WordPress site from February 21, 2008: https://loveandaffection01.wordpress.com/2008/02/21/mr-jon-eardley/ This is not a reliable source, but look what it claims: "All of Ms. Spears civil rights have been violated by the lower court. And all of Ms. Spears civil rights continue to be unwittingly violated by the state court. There is a very serious flaw in the commitment, and conservatorship statutes, and implementations in California state law. These flaws allow for very serious violations of civil, and international human rights. Specifically, The facts of the case is that Britney’s psychiatrist poisoned her with psych med’s through tricking Britney’s care taker Sam Lutfi into medicating Britney on doctors orders with some medication poisons causing a temporary mental health crisis. Then the hospital psychiatrists, Britney’s family, and the courts used Britney’s mental impairments caused by their poisoning of her to strip Britney of all her civil rights. Just review the videos, and other records made at the time. https://www.tmz.com has a lot of video records of Ms. Spears. As do many other sources. You can also use the testimony of police officers who had conversations with Britney prior to her being drugged by her psychiatrist when some pap’s following Britney were arrested for driving recklessly. As well as the testimony of some pap’s she had conversations with. The facts, evidence, and conclusions are irrefutable that prior to being drugged with psych med’s under her psychiatrist orders, Ms. Spears was coherent, competent, and able to fully care for her-self. Further, she presented no threat to her-self, or the community that rises to the level to justify the loss of her precious civil rights. And the seizure of all her property, assets, and personage." There is a lot in that link, and there are some posts about Britney's situation in 2008 on the site that made this person look a bit "out there" in 2008, but seems more believable nowadays. This was written back in 2008 before anyone was talking about this. And Britney's parents testified in court that Lutfi drugged Britney, so this doesn't seem like it's too far off... 3 10 Link to comment
Yoongi Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 10 hours ago, Urbanney said: Uhh I just searched for “Jon Eardly” and this post came up on a random WordPress site from February 21, 2008: https://loveandaffection01.wordpress.com/2008/02/21/mr-jon-eardley/ This is not a reliable source, but look what it claims: "All of Ms. Spears civil rights have been violated by the lower court. And all of Ms. Spears civil rights continue to be unwittingly violated by the state court. There is a very serious flaw in the commitment, and conservatorship statutes, and implementations in California state law. These flaws allow for very serious violations of civil, and international human rights. Specifically, The facts of the case is that Britney’s psychiatrist poisoned her with psych med’s through tricking Britney’s care taker Sam Lutfi into medicating Britney on doctors orders with some medication poisons causing a temporary mental health crisis. Then the hospital psychiatrists, Britney’s family, and the courts used Britney’s mental impairments caused by their poisoning of her to strip Britney of all her civil rights. Just review the videos, and other records made at the time. https://www.tmz.com has a lot of video records of Ms. Spears. As do many other sources. You can also use the testimony of police officers who had conversations with Britney prior to her being drugged by her psychiatrist when some pap’s following Britney were arrested for driving recklessly. As well as the testimony of some pap’s she had conversations with. The facts, evidence, and conclusions are irrefutable that prior to being drugged with psych med’s under her psychiatrist orders, Ms. Spears was coherent, competent, and able to fully care for her-self. Further, she presented no threat to her-self, or the community that rises to the level to justify the loss of her precious civil rights. And the seizure of all her property, assets, and personage." There is a lot in that link, and there are some posts about Britney's situation in 2008 on the site that made this person look a bit "out there" in 2008, but seems more believable nowadays. This was written back in 2008 before anyone was talking about this. And Britney's parents testified in court that Lutfi drugged Britney, so this doesn't seem like it's too far off... Considering all evidence and timeline of events we have, I don't doubt these claims. It would fit the narrative perfectly. Also, Britney's letter: "I was lied to and set up". 3 Link to comment
zxcvb Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 10 hours ago, Urbanney said: Uhh I just searched for “Jon Eardly” and this post came up on a random WordPress site from February 21, 2008: https://loveandaffection01.wordpress.com/2008/02/21/mr-jon-eardley/ This is not a reliable source, but look what it claims: "All of Ms. Spears civil rights have been violated by the lower court. And all of Ms. Spears civil rights continue to be unwittingly violated by the state court. There is a very serious flaw in the commitment, and conservatorship statutes, and implementations in California state law. These flaws allow for very serious violations of civil, and international human rights. Specifically, The facts of the case is that Britney’s psychiatrist poisoned her with psych med’s through tricking Britney’s care taker Sam Lutfi into medicating Britney on doctors orders with some medication poisons causing a temporary mental health crisis. Then the hospital psychiatrists, Britney’s family, and the courts used Britney’s mental impairments caused by their poisoning of her to strip Britney of all her civil rights. Just review the videos, and other records made at the time. https://www.tmz.com has a lot of video records of Ms. Spears. As do many other sources. You can also use the testimony of police officers who had conversations with Britney prior to her being drugged by her psychiatrist when some pap’s following Britney were arrested for driving recklessly. As well as the testimony of some pap’s she had conversations with. The facts, evidence, and conclusions are irrefutable that prior to being drugged with psych med’s under her psychiatrist orders, Ms. Spears was coherent, competent, and able to fully care for her-self. Further, she presented no threat to her-self, or the community that rises to the level to justify the loss of her precious civil rights. And the seizure of all her property, assets, and personage." There is a lot in that link, and there are some posts about Britney's situation in 2008 on the site that made this person look a bit "out there" in 2008, but seems more believable nowadays. This was written back in 2008 before anyone was talking about this. And Britney's parents testified in court that Lutfi drugged Britney, so this doesn't seem like it's too far off... 2 minutes ago, Yoongi said: Considering all evidence and timeline of events we have, I don't doubt these claims. It would fit the narrative perfectly. Also, Britney's letter: "I was lied to and set up". Just look at what the declaration in court from a decade-long experienced supervised visitation monitor with Britney for a 7 month span from October 2007 till April 2008 said about Lynne's claims about Lufti drugging Britney: "I am informed and believe that, in her book, Lynne also asserts that Lufti told her that he had ground up pills, such as Ridperdol and Seroquel, in Britney's food in attempt to keep her sedated and out of trouble. Based on my own personal knowledge and experience, I do not believe that this assertion is true." "As a family care monitor, I am required to be aware of all ***** (prescription or otherwise) being taken by the persons I am monitoring. During the the seventh month period in which I monitored Britney, she was taking anti-depressant medication as prescribed by her doctors. I witness Britney taking this medication on almost a daily basis. I am unaware that she had been prescribed any other such medications. I also witnessed that the anti-depressant ***** had the opposite of a sedating effect on Britney." https://breatheheavy.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/declarations-sims-ghalib-johnson-teixeira1.pdf 1 3 Link to comment
Yoongi Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, zxcvb said: Just look at what the declaration in court from a decade-long experienced supervised visitation monitor with Britney for a 7 month span from October 2007 till April 2008 said about Lynne's claims about Lufti drugging Britney: "I am informed and believe that, in her book, Lynne also asserts that Lufti told her that he had ground up pills, such as Ridperdol and Seroquel, in Britney's food in attempt to keep her sedated and out of trouble. Based on my own personal knowledge and experience, I do not believe that this assertion is true." "As a family care monitor, I am required to be aware of all ***** (prescription or otherwise) being taken by the persons I am monitoring. During the the seventh month period in which I monitored Britney, she was taking anti-depressant medication as prescribed by her doctors. I witness Britney taking this medication on almost a daily basis. I am unaware that she had been prescribed any other such medications. I also witnessed that the anti-depressant ***** had the opposite of a sedating effect on Britney." https://breatheheavy.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/declarations-sims-ghalib-johnson-teixeira1.pdf Can you please explain to me why this monitor was in Britney's house? It was something envolving the kids custody? Link to comment
Rojo Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Louise M Taylor, The Source of All Evil, was tagged in a old post and I wanted to share it with you, cause it's kinda funny. Louise M Taylor acknowledges that she's a witch but not a basic one The guy next to her is her husband, the Pastor Robert M Taylor (@robmtaylor on IG) aka the man that Britney referred in her emails back in july 2007 (link) Link to comment
Applejack Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 22 minutes ago, Yoongi said: Can you please explain to me why this monitor was in Britney's house? It was something envolving the kids custody? Yes. As part of the proceedings to get custody back. 3 Link to comment
LLuvia Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 12 hours ago, Urbanney said: Uhh I just searched for “Jon Eardly” and this post came up on a random WordPress site from February 21, 2008: https://loveandaffection01.wordpress.com/2008/02/21/mr-jon-eardley/ This is not a reliable source, but look what it claims: "All of Ms. Spears civil rights have been violated by the lower court. And all of Ms. Spears civil rights continue to be unwittingly violated by the state court. There is a very serious flaw in the commitment, and conservatorship statutes, and implementations in California state law. These flaws allow for very serious violations of civil, and international human rights. Specifically, The facts of the case is that Britney’s psychiatrist poisoned her with psych med’s through tricking Britney’s care taker Sam Lutfi into medicating Britney on doctors orders with some medication poisons causing a temporary mental health crisis. Then the hospital psychiatrists, Britney’s family, and the courts used Britney’s mental impairments caused by their poisoning of her to strip Britney of all her civil rights. Just review the videos, and other records made at the time. https://www.tmz.com has a lot of video records of Ms. Spears. As do many other sources. You can also use the testimony of police officers who had conversations with Britney prior to her being drugged by her psychiatrist when some pap’s following Britney were arrested for driving recklessly. As well as the testimony of some pap’s she had conversations with. The facts, evidence, and conclusions are irrefutable that prior to being drugged with psych med’s under her psychiatrist orders, Ms. Spears was coherent, competent, and able to fully care for her-self. Further, she presented no threat to her-self, or the community that rises to the level to justify the loss of her precious civil rights. And the seizure of all her property, assets, and personage." There is a lot in that link, and there are some posts about Britney's situation in 2008 on the site that made this person look a bit "out there" in 2008, but seems more believable nowadays. This was written back in 2008 before anyone was talking about this. And Britney's parents testified in court that Lutfi drugged Britney, so this doesn't seem like it's too far off... Why do you think it is not a credible source? and unfortunately, the facts over time have been proven. This person talks about what we all mostly know or feel. That taking medication in high doses and without being diagnosed is something very dangerous, he talks about the serious side effects, he talks about physical, mental, psychological and financial abuse. This person says that she needs a rest routine that is due to stress and anxiety and that she suffers from sleep disorders (something we all know). Even this person gives the benefit of the doubt to her father and family and even Sam Lutfi. Please do not stop reading Holly's comments:She tells us about Jamie Spears' trauma, his father was an abuser and his mother committed suicide due to domestic violence, Britney wants her father to go to therapy in 2008, Lynne is going to publish a book, she tells us experience when she started smoking intensely "when her brother was about to commit suicide" [I think I wrote a comment that was allegedly rumored that she attempted suicide in 2002], later her brother still did not overcome the trauma of his childhood, she ate healthily but began to eat junk food for all that reason, she talks about the pain that Britney felt when her aunt Sandra died, she talks about how inquisitive and invasive Kevin's lawyer was,She talks about Britney being physically abused by the security that her father/team hires. So they need to medicate her so she can act like all teh other prozac, sleeping tabs or alchohol or party **** people of california who think normal is acting like a robot and not grieving. i noticed that after a really bad relationship bust up most women cut off their hair to release the past. i thought it was a healthy thing to do, and at the time there was the cancer foundation asking people to shave their hair to bring awareness to teh fight for cancer. She loved her mums sister very much and it must have been hard to have her mum on so many medication at the time when her mum was grieving her sister, and then really things seem to have escalated from there. i hope that the family psychologist who is treating Jamie and Britney helps britney forgive Jamie for his alchoholism of the past, and helps Jamie to overcome his hurt of losing his mother at a young age. A good psychologist can help things heal, and help Britney through the pain of having to reunite with her kids so slowly. But if they did help heal things and get Jamie to apologize for his repressed anger towards his mother being taken out on trying to control Britney or whatever the issues were that warranted the psychs saying it was a father daughter problem needing counsellling, and to help Britney get over some of her betrayal hurts so she is stronger, then those psychs would feel like legends for having such a open success. With many psychs the patients are begging for more meds or higher doses etc, so if Britney is not keen for big med doses, and the psychs can work with the family therapy, then if the psychs can support Britney in her right to access to the children and her right to fair treatment, then the doctors would not want to be part of anything other than her success, or they lose all their own reputation. So my script is to remember those movies are meant to frighten us, in our hearts is a real love of being free. So my script will have to be to believe Britney will become free again, only freer than she was before actually. ideally i would like the doctors to care so much for Britney they do all they can to ensure her safety and access rights for hope, ideally i would like Lynne to forgive Jamie for his alchoholic years and to enjoy her renewed relationship with her daughter, i would like Kfed to care for his babies enough to want them to have a mother, i would like kfed lawyer to get a conscience and wonder if it is ethically right to deny a mother her children while he takes all her money for hte supposedly crazy things he thinks she does like nightclub openings and fashion shop endorsements and being an entertainer who sometimes has late nights. But even if things are not so ideal: lynne has a good parenting book still to publish, Jamie wants people to forget about his alchoholic past and to have Britney well enough for some extra financial help to him, kfed would probably want the children to not hate him forever for if they understand his mother got sicker while missing them, plus he might like maintenance rom her for his life perhaps, the lawyers want britney up and well so they can get more money for them, and the doctors have their reputations on full display to the world. i am very sad if Britney is being physically assaulted at home. When i see the open display of physical pushing and manhandling by her fathers jailors when she goes out to do her endorsement work, it has made me wonder that if this is happening on public video ie jailors pushing her around, and making sure she has no chance to speak to anyone in the crowd even if she would choose to, then it does make you wonder what it happening behind closed doors. As a mother i do know that if i could see my children, even if bullied or bashed, or all my money stolen, i would not be so sad if i could see the children. All teh money, lack of abuse would not make up for not seeing the children. So i only hope Britney can be strong to keep going. it is interesting that the doctors at the hospital on both occassions she got sent there, after tests were done, seem to have agreeed she does not need to be in institutionalized in a hospital. Yet she presumably she would have more freedom in hospital than the situation she is in. she probably could choose not to have her father sleeping in her room with her. one thing that frightens me, after i see security manhandling her in public with no respect for her, that she may be locked in her home with these bunch of strange men while she is given her sleeping tablets and the like. i think it would be quite frightening to be denied your friends, aides, manangers, own security, and to be left surrounded at night by a bunch of men who seem to have no respect for you. when a real woman comes in and cries openly that her parents are going to commit her, when she is too sad to face her betraying ex in court, when she cuts her hair after her auntie dies of cancer and the cancer foundation asks people to raise awareness by cutting their hair, when she responds to life with honesty and real feelings, having her babies with her own body, staying home to look after them giving up her exacting body image to love her kids. When she held her 1 year old and would not let him go, because she could not bear to think aobut the judge going to deny her access rights. That is a legend woman of true emotions and real feelings, and what we have is California saying this is Erratic. they cannot understand a mother not being able to let her baby go. That must be because the rest of the state has been completely medicated out of any real emotions, or told to act like a machine. i am not saying if a woman is hurting with a divorce proceedings she does not need some help or treatment, nor that maybe supervised access might be needed for a bit, but i am saying her normal emotions during a custody battle looked just like a normal person except i thought she handled things much better than normal, in the sense she kept working her endorsements, and doing her best to be professional and together. i think she is a legend of true emotions, honest feelings, and wonderful integrity. money does not matter to her, so maybe after they have her money they will ease off. is it true that decades of alchohol and pills can make it like you lose many brain cells, even though Jamie is now meant to have detoxed, is there any chance he can come good now he is having family therapy. as i understand it hte doctors have put the problem down to not on Britney, but onto Britney and Jamie father daughter situaion, and that the psych is giving them family therapy, while they both recieve treaetment. i think he has been ordered to receive this treatment? i really hope that Jamie gets the help he needs to help him get over his past childhood hurt so he can support his grandchildren having a mothter. i wonder if he blamed his mother for her going. Back then there were not a lot of refuges for battered wives and his poor mother might have not had a chance to find a way through. i hope he can find forgiveneess and healing. ep you are right about the bump over the eye area, as i saw a video where her security appeared to have his hand to push her through the crowd, and it appears he forgot to give her a moment to duck her head under a bar near their heads, and he seemed to push her straight into the bar. He appeared to do this completely accidentally, so you are right, People need to be warned to be a bit more gentle and caring with people who are on meds. But also with people doing any counselling to resolve things. i noticed when i face past hurts i have to be extra careful to focus and earth. Another thing is that things like walking and dancing can earth us. I heard Britney keeps doing a pile of housework and rearranging things at home to keep busy. i do think she is trying her best to keep it together in a tough situation. I wonder if she has given up smoking, as i do not see her with any cigarette packet pictures. Not that i know if she smoked. But one time after my darling brother was close to killing himself, i started to smoke. a couple of years later i lost a job and i sat at home feeling the pain that my brother could not make it through our childhood traumas. i decided even though the world seemed dark that week to cut the ciggies out, and cry out the pain and stop repressing it. i decided to be brave to live and be the survivor i wanted to be. i have to say how great it felt when i stopped the cigarettes. I started to repress with massive junk food a couple of years ago, after years of eating healthy, and yes it turned out another pile of stuff needed to be released. i let myself remember old memories, cry and shout things out and stop repressing it with junk food. While i might have the odd cake i am not needing to placate the pain so much now. I do think healing is an ongoing thing. When people have a divorce or a job loss or whatever, quite often there are some hurts triggered that go back to earlier times. When i am releasing deep hurts my skin often breaks out in my childhood stress ezema or some such symptoms. Humans are vulnerable creatures. So as much as i am not liking to see Britneys face and body puffed up from what looks like major meds, not so much that i mind temporary puff, but it just looks like the amount she is being given must be a high dose. However i am still hopeful that there is some good family therapy, good meals, smoke free environment, and some support from the therapists that her family should support her in seeing the children and standing up to the people who were ripping her off. I really hope she has got someone ethical to help her release some of the awful pain of divorce and to find trust. I do think even if she had to pay kfed lawyer millions, that to have her family stand up with her to support her in it not being right for him to do this, would be healing. It is like when some people have a marriage breakdown, they do not want their mum saying, “i told you so, you idiot for not doing the pre nup” you hope your mum would say, what can we do to help and support you through this tough time. we all do want to be loved. I heard That kfed lawyer Kaplan was trying to find out information about whether she likes to be naked at home, in order to take the babies off her on things like this. Imagine having some dirty lawyer guy asking about just when you got naked and stuff like that. All my friends go naked at home sometimes if it is warm enough. And everyone i know who has babies gets naked with the baby, holding them close at night skin to skin, or in the bath together. It is recommended by good parenting books. Britney does not always wear much on her video clips or her club endorsement work and Kaplan tried to make out if she wants to be the **** woman wearing few clothes she has no right to be a mother. then he held out his hand to be paid the money she earnt from doing the video clips and nightclub endorsements. I wonder if Britney had not been a musketeer, if she would have been hounded by middle america for finally rebelling and having a hot man and a bit of time off from her work schedule. It is interesting that some other female child stars have been known to take massive *****, but due to them being anorexic and still looking like children, those stars are in the little girls magazines as role models. Because outwardly they keep looking like they are asexual due to anorexia, they are not media attacked in the same way Britney was. And people like whitney houston do not lose custody of their child, or have people feel other than sorry for her during her crack years. But she was not a child star, or expected to be a role model for young girls. There is a time when the pressure of being that good little hard working girl ends and you want to say, no i am a ****** and whole woman. the more it was repressed that you are not allowed a boyfriend unless married, cos you are a role model, then a person who breaks out might just say, ok then i might just marry for a night and then annul, my manager mother cannot deny me a night with my old child hood sweetheart just because i am a role model. every person needs to have a point where they try out some relationships or ideas for themselves, and to make some mistakes, have some success and learn and grow. The more they tried to cage Britney in, the more she said she would be free. And even when that Kaplan tried to break her spirit with his demand to invade her whole life, which due to him asking for no confidentiality of the court docs, then to have the information of just when she gets naked, and hypotthetically to get her to say things like why she cried or got drunk when she found out kfed got on with her best friend or whatever. Those types of heavy duty invasive questions seemed to be designed to break her spirit, She wisely avoided most of the kaplan inquisition, and waits for some fair resolution. People tried to make out she was too busy partying to attend Kaplans inquisitions, but Britney is actually a very smart person, and she knew when the dice was so loaded she could only wait for some other way to emerge. i think she did a great job on keeping her spirit alive in such tough times, and if she got even a bit of support from her family on standing up to people who have their agendas, then that must help. Basically i imagine even if the lawyers fighting Kaplans payment meant a bigger bill in the end, i do think it becomes a matter of having a sense of pride that you are not ripped off without a fight. So if her family stand up for her on some things now, i think that might really help the healing. She loves to be free like the wind, and her smile can light up a thousand universes. But she has every right to cry and grieve and release her pains, just like all of us do. I believe it is not wrong to end a bad relationship and to be allowed respect for being a single mother or father. So i can see a lot of hate that some people feel about a public figure out having fun when divorcing, is based on some deep repressed hate of women. it was often the womens magazines that layed into a divorcing woman and tried to spread lies and controversy. Were they drawing on a collective thing in women where women have been taught to self hate that they are nothing without a married situation. 4 Link to comment
Urbanney Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 49 minutes ago, LLuvia said: Why do you think it is not a credible source? It’s more of a disclaimer that there are no sources to back up the writer’s claims. It’s speculation if there are no sources added. 2 Link to comment
Applejack Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 I found the old Tri Star site: https://web.archive.org/web/20100820134117/https://tristarse.com/ go "your staff" -> lou taylor -> quotes or the topics sksioejij49jifjiro Spoiler also, reminding to join the discord free britney: https://discord.gg/zfkJA9A not really wanting to make a thread on it, want to keep it low key or idk if yall want that 4 Link to comment
LLuvia Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Use technical language again( It's a PDF of a consensus guide for emergency departments. I have no idea if this user is a physician but at least, knows where to look). 3 Link to comment
kleinbritney Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Tess from podcast Britney's Gram was on German TV right now and only talked about Britney. #Freebritney is unstoppable worldwide 7 Link to comment
MyahJeanSpears Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 minute ago, kleinbritney said: Tess from podcast Britney's Gram was on German TV right now and only talked about Britney. #Freebritney is unstoppable worldwide What? Where can I find this? Link to comment
Slayer Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, kleinbritney said: Tess from podcast Britney's Gram was on German TV right now and only talked about Britney. #Freebritney is unstoppable worldwide is this online? Link to comment
Blackout2006 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 On 7/17/2020 at 5:03 PM, Arianna said: Wow this S is dark This is probably exhales biggest thread ever Link to comment
Notorious I.G.G.Y. Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, kleinbritney said: Tess from podcast Britney's Gram was on German TV right now and only talked about Britney. #Freebritney is unstoppable worldwide Wait what for real?! Is there a video? Link to comment
Applejack Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Btw did you guys know that Michael Sands, the spokesperson for Jon Eardley and Lutfi (the guy who said about the racketeering and wire fraud and money laundering and the financial ... can't believe he used that word... of the estate of Britney Spears), was KFED'S PUBLICIST/SPOKESPERSON before? He left KFed to be the spokesperson for Lutfi and Eardley. Said he dropped KFed because he was tired of bashing Britney, that Kaplan was going too far and that KFed should help the mother of his children. Still, take this with a grain of salt like everyone did back then. But tis interesting. 2 4 Link to comment
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