featured! Who Was The Bigger POP Culture Icon In 2003? Britney or JLO?

[icybaby]

4 minutes ago, DignifiedLove said:

Being a pop culture icon doesn’t mean you need to be or equate to strictly making pop music like what...  y’all are always finding new ways to discredit jlo, I swear

No i am not. And u r right she doesn't have to make only pop music. But for me she wasn't that big pop culture influencer at a time. Still i don't try to diminish her role in a music and her hard work. 

[DignifiedLove]

19 minutes ago, zenden said:

No i am not. And u r right she doesn't have to make only pop music. But for me she wasn't that big pop culture influencer at a time. Still i don't try to diminish her role in a music and her hard work. 

Her, Britney, Beyonce, Avril and Shak were the 5 biggest female artists of the decade so that should tell you something

[icybaby]

1 minute ago, DignifiedLove said:

Her, Britney, Beyonce, Avril and Shak were the 5 biggest female artists of the decade so that should tell you something

The topic is who was bigger pop culture icon Britney or Jlo. I said Britney. 

[RadicalOptimism]

1 minute ago, zenden said:

The topic is who was bigger pop culture icon Britney or Jlo. I said Britney. 

Thank you for not saying Avril 

[RadicalOptimism]

5 minutes ago, DignifiedLove said:

Her, Britney, Beyonce, Avril and Shak were the 5 biggest female artists of the decade so that should tell you something

You know I used to listen to Avrils singles, but for the life of me besides Complicated, Sk8er Boi, I’m With You and Girlfriend I can’t remember what impact she made. Two of those music videos are memorable and I remember the latter being the most watched video on YouTube at the time (idk if I’m tripping but I remember it being). I’m not the biggest Beyoncé fan but I can’t deny that she had more iconic songs, moments and videos than Avril did. No one can deny Jlo’s impact on pop culture, but she definitely did not deserve to be ahead of Britney at the time. I love Jlo, but she should’ve been #20 and Britney #15 if that’s how they were going to rank them 

[vzlafan]

LOVE BOTH OF THEM BUT THE ICON IS BRITNEY, SHE GOT MORE TICKET SALES THAN JLO, THE LAST JLO TOUR IN EUROPE WHEN BRITNEY GO TO STADIUMS PARKS ARENA, JLO WAS ONLY PLAYING ON RESORTS AND SMALL VENUES.

 

IN 2003,

JLO GOT ONLY PERFORMED LIKE 3 CONCERTS ONE FOR THE ARMY, 2 FOR THE DVD LETS GET LOUD

 

AND BRITNEY GOT 4 SOLD OUT TOURS AHEAD

BOMT TOUR, CRAZY 2K, OOPS TOUR , DREAM WITHIM A DREAM TOUR

 

NO DOUBT BRITNEY IS BRITNEY

[Roxxy]

7 hours ago, PokemonSpears said:

I'm still waiting for that list of videos from Pink and Jlo

Or why are you so sure that Xtina only has 4 worthy videos, but none of her other videos qualify , like, who made the rules? or where do you see a measurable mark to say "see, this and that video had an impact but this and that didn't"

Wait what is this. I didnt promise you any Pink and J.Lo videos. 

[Roxxy]

@PokemonSpears @DignifiedLove

Are you two fighting?

What is happening? I see long replies and i'm too lazy to read your exchange. I can't believe this isn't over yet and I can't believe Pokie would still be pressed over this. 

Pokie, love you ❤😘 just because I said in this thread that J.Lo doesn't outimpact Britney, it don't mean I don't think J.Lo is an actual icon. She still is. There is no debating that.

And yes @CrazyButItFeelsAllright Xtina only has 4 iconic music videos and they are Lady Marmalade, Dirrty, Beautiful, and Fighter. 

 

[4darkchildney]

Britney. Even here in Sweden her songs were everywhere and everyone was talking about her. Tbh I didn't even know Jlo made music until On The Floor came out cause I was a teenager then and heard it at clubs everywhere

[Slave_4_u]

8 hours ago, CrazyButItFeelsAllright said:

I loved this reply because you made very valid points. I think because I was born in the US and my mom was also raised here that I just related to her as someone from the Latin community. As you said though, just because she’s Latina doesn’t mean that she necessarily embraced or represented that side as much. It took me a while to realize the impact American artists had on the rest of the world growing up. Living here and being surrounded by American media there are American artists I just assumed were big everywhere just because they were big here. I do think what changed was her split from Ben Affleck and romantic relationship with Marc Anthony. She ended up recording more Spanish songs, but I still can’t get over the fact that Christina released a Spanish album first. I do think it was weird they made her record a Spanish album just because her estranged father was Argentinian. 

They made Christina do a Spanish album? I thought she wanted to, I thought it was her idea? 

[Sinned_88]

Isn't this ranking only based on their achievements and impact on the year 2003? In that case, I wouldn't be surprised that they placed J.Lo higher than Britney. Britney of course had the VMA performence, MATM mv and ITZ release but that was about it. J.Lo was everywhere.

[PokemonSpears]

1 hour ago, Roxxy said:

@PokemonSpears @DignifiedLove

Are you two fighting?

What is happening? I see long replies and i'm too lazy to read your exchange. I can't believe this isn't over yet and I can't believe Pokie would still be pressed over this. 

Pokie, love you ❤😘 just because I said in this thread that J.Lo doesn't outimpact Britney, it don't mean I don't think J.Lo is an actual icon. She still is. There is no debating that.

And yes @CrazyButItFeelsAllright Xtina only has 4 iconic music videos and they are Lady Marmalade, Dirrty, Beautiful, and Fighter. 

 

No, I'm not fighting with anyone. @JordanMiller was the one that started a thread asking whether Christina deserved the video vanguard award or not. I ignore why someone that is so into music culture would even start a conversation about such topic if according to you two it's SO obvious why Christina will never get it. He's not making a thread about Stacie Orrico or Sean Paul, so if someone else is evaluating the possibility of Christina receiving the award, then I might not be that crazy to think it's possible too, as well as other people that agreed on that thread.

But anyways, I think that what I initially said back then was that if Missy Elliot already got it, than anyone could get it at this point, at least someone like Christina Aguilera. And at some point I suggested that the recipient of the award is chosen arbitrary each year by the producers of the show and it's not following any kind of pattern or standard with which they evaluate the artists' careers and say, ok this is the obvious next recipient of the award because of this and that.

So all I wanted from you two was to help me understand WHY it made sense for Jlo, Pink, Missy, and the others to get the award, but not Christina. So you and him just keep telling me all these things about how influential they are, but with no concrete examples from those artists.

You once more bring up your list of 4 Christina videos. Why those 4 only? Why her other videos don't make your list? Which are your measurable and verifiable reasons that make you conclude that, and where is that equivalent list for the other artists that got the award? Why is it so hard to answer me that if it's so obvious and clear? And again, I'm not questioning or saying that the other artists didn't deserve it, my issue is why Christina doesn't fall in that same category?

Dignified finally gave me a list of Pink videos, though I'm still trying to understand how is that not a subjective list, or how can't someone else come up with a similar or bigger list of Christina videos. He already told me to figure that out myself, so it's obvious I won't get anything from him and you won't answer me either because you won't read this long *** reply. If I haven't figured it out in 20 years, I don't know what do I have to do to understand it, or where do I have to look to see what you two are seeing and I'm not.

That's why I stopped replying on the other thread, because I know this is not going anywhere.

 

All I wanted to say to Jordan's thread is that if they were to give the award to Christina, it wouldn't surprise me, it would actually make sense to me, because that's my perception.

[Alxatc]

Is this a joke? 

[Roxxy]

2 hours ago, PokemonSpears said:

So all I wanted from you two was to help me understand WHY it made sense for Jlo, Pink, Missy, and the others to get the award, but not Christina. So you and him just keep telling me all these things about how influential they are, but with no concrete examples from those artists.

Ok I think I did answer you in the other thread about P!nk. I think. 

P!nk has maintained an enduring career that's quiet but consistent and sturdy. More so than our fave, and definitely more than Xtina. I don't know why you don't see P!nk as a force but I remember I did mention P!nk being a touring force before. More than our fave, actually.

P!nk has three Billboard 200 #1 albums and one #2 and she achieved all of that with her last 4 releases. Meaning, she is getting BIGGER - more power, more influence. As opposed to our fave who only had two #1s out of her last 4 releases and unlike P!nk who scored three back2back2back #1s while our fave is struggling to even land a Top 3 album with her last two studio releases. Meaning, Britney's power is diminishing. But atleast she already made a seismic mark during her peak and that is why she was eligible for the Vanguard even before the start of her decline. P!nk has 15 Hot 100 Top 10s. Our fave only has 13 Hot 100 Top 10s. P!nk has four Hot 100 #1s versue Britney's 5. BUT, P!nk's chart toppers have been consistent on the Hot 100 unlike our fave's front loaded peaks. P!nks chart toppers especially Just Give Me a Reason and Raise Your Glass outsold AND outlasted our fave's best performing post-breakdown single, Womanizer. Even P!nk's F ing Perfect performed better and it only peaked at #2 on the Hot 100. Shocking isn't it? That's what I mean by quiet but consistent and sturdy. She may not be like Britney or Xtina but P!nk is very much there. P!nk is like Faith Hill. You don't discredit Faith Hill just because she's no Shania. Faith Hill is a country icon, too. Not sure if you get that comparison since you don't know too much about pop culture. I'm trying my best to simplify everything with facts. 

Also P!nk is an acclaimed stage performer. Her Glitter in the Air performance is iconic and she has since been known for her acrobatic award show performances. Britney's imagery when it comes to her performances is more for the shock value and the thrill of it all. While P!nk is literally "acclaimed" and "lauded" by not only the press but as well as her peers in the industry. P!nk is very respected and that is why she has been getting nods from the Grammys as opposed to our fave always getting snubbed. Just as much as Faith Hill is respected and acclaimed in the industry despite not having the same juggernaut success of Shania's Come On Over.

Spoiler

Stream Breathe - Billboard's Top Song of the Year 2000 (despite not hitting #1 on the Hot 100)

 

Okay going back to Xtina. FYI Xtina is my #2 popstar after Brit. Not my #2 celeb fave (Paris) but my #2 popstar hero. Legend X only has two Billboard 200 #1 albums and one #2. And she achieved all of that TINY (compared to Britney who had 4 during her peak) success during her peak. After that, what? What has she achieved and done for Pop Culture? She's irrelevant now. Further more, that number is less than what P!nk has in terms of #1 albums (she has 3). Now in terms of singles, Xtina has 11 Hot 100 Top 10s. Only 11. And 3 of those are features. Her last 3 Top 10s are all FEATURES. While P!nk hasn't visited the Top 10 in recent years, her albums have been consistent #1s. Which is what Britney was during her peak. Minimal 10s but consistent #1 albums. P!nk is growing not just as an artist but as an icon and A FORCE. While Xtina has not even done a lot during her peak (because of being in Britney's shadow) and she's just diminished her icon-ness and legacy. Xtina has been touring small venues while P!nk is filling up arenas just like Madonna (altho her tickets are not as expensive as Madge's). Xtina is struggling to even fill small venues.

If you were not a fan, what images of Xtina can you remember from her music videos? Aside from the 4 that I mentioned and I stand by that and nobody can tell me otherwise - but you're free to add to that list. 💛 Maybe i'll give Genie in a Bottle a pass.

Here are some of the most enduring and instantly recognizable images of Xtina's music videos and fashion moments. Except for the first photo, all of them are from the STRIPPED era and the music videos particularly are from the 4 that I mentioned. They are iconic. They are pop culture moments.

Xtina does have one iconic look and image and performance that's not from this era and it is this.

Now do I think Xtina deserves a Vanguard because of the examples I've given? Absolutely not. We have a standard and as much as I LOVE XTINA VERY MUCH, she just came up short. And that's a hard pill to swallow for us fans and you better start swallowing that pill, too. I have all her albums including Keeps Getting Better and except Lotus and Liberation IN PHYSICAL. But I'm not about to give her a Vanguard just cause she owns 9 inches of space on my shelf.

Lastly, remember that Billboard thread of yours? Wasn't Xtina not part of the Top 10 who are not MVPs? That list is literally a runners up list and she STILL did not make it. How pathetic can you get if you didn't even make the list of the Top 10 Losers? Atleast J.Lo grew her empire and had a second peak and resurgence in 2011 and has managed to keep that relevance. Something Xtina hasn't done despite being in several seasons of The Voice and maybe that made all the difference as to why J.Lo got a Vanguard and Xtina didn't. J.Lo actually bounced back into the mainstream not just as an artist singer but an entertainer overall. J.Lo is a brand and an empire. Xtina has been A JUDGE for the most part of the period of her diminishing relevance.

Love you. 💛  

[DollyParton]

11 hours ago, CrazyButItFeelsAllright said:

I’m still waiting for my Shakira and Britney collab  the fact she collabed with a Beyonce and Rihanna first I just can’t  imagine 2001 Britney and Shakira collab? Would’ve outimpacted and outsold Madonnas collab 

I think that wouldn't have been a good idea back then.  Shakira was sort of a 'new refreshed' version of Britney Spears, in 2001 they basically looked the same for the GP, that would have been a "confusing" duo. 

[RadicalOptimism]

3 hours ago, Roxxy said:

@PokemonSpears @DignifiedLove

Are you two fighting?

What is happening? I see long replies and i'm too lazy to read your exchange. I can't believe this isn't over yet and I can't believe Pokie would still be pressed over this. 

Pokie, love you ❤😘 just because I said in this thread that J.Lo doesn't outimpact Britney, it don't mean I don't think J.Lo is an actual icon. She still is. There is no debating that.

And yes @CrazyButItFeelsAllright Xtina only has 4 iconic music videos and they are Lady Marmalade, Dirrty, Beautiful, and Fighter. 

 

Except my friends who aren’t even fans have mentioned Genie In a Bottle & Come On Over as music videos tied to her image. I can’t believe not even Genie is on the list.  like the red streaks in her hair are iconic 

[Roxxy]

7 minutes ago, CrazyButItFeelsAllright said:

Except my friends who aren’t even fans have mentioned Genie In a Bottle & Come On Over as music videos tied to her image. I can’t believe not even Genie is on the list.  like the red streaks in her hair are iconic 

Tea the red streaks AND the nose ring too (i wanted to get one in 6th grade LMAO) But it's still not iconic enough. The media and the press don't even reference those two videos when they discuss Xtina's iconic-ness. Genie AS A SONG is ICONIC. But not the video. or maybe passable. The image of her on the sand. Its very ishhh. But even if we add those 2, is that a strong enough case for a Vanguard? 

[RadicalOptimism]

48 minutes ago, Roxxy said:

Ok I think I did answer you in the other thread about P!nk. I think. 

P!nk has maintained an enduring career that's quiet but consistent and sturdy. More so than our fave, and definitely more than Xtina. I don't know why you don't see P!nk as a force but I remember I did mention P!nk being a touring force before. More than our fave, actually.

P!nk has three Billboard 200 #1 albums and one #2 and she achieved all of that with her last 4 releases. Meaning, she is getting BIGGER - more power, more influence. As opposed to our fave who only had two #1s out of her last 4 releases and unlike P!nk who scored three back2back2back #1s while our fave is struggling to even land a Top 3 album with her last two studio releases. Meaning, Britney's power is diminishing. But atleast she already made a seismic mark during her peak and that is why she was eligible for the Vanguard even before the start of her decline. P!nk has 15 Hot 100 Top 10s. Our fave only has 13 Hot 100 Top 10s. P!nk has four Hot 100 #1s versue Britney's 5. BUT, P!nk's chart toppers have been consistent on the Hot 100 unlike our fave's front loaded peaks. P!nks chart toppers especially Just Give Me a Reason and Raise Your Glass outsold AND outlasted our fave's best performing post-breakdown single, Womanizer. Even P!nk's F ing Perfect performed better and it only peaked at #2 on the Hot 100. Shocking isn't it? That's what I mean by quiet but consistent and sturdy. She may not be like Britney or Xtina but P!nk is very much there. P!nk is like Faith Hill. You don't discredit Faith Hill just because she's no Shania. Faith Hill is a country icon, too. Not sure if you get that comparison since you don't know too much about pop culture. I'm trying my best to simplify everything with facts. 

Also P!nk is an acclaimed stage performer. Her Glitter in the Air performance is iconic and she has since been known for her acrobatic award show performances. Britney's imagery when it comes to her performances is more for the shock value and the thrill of it all. While P!nk is literally "acclaimed" and "lauded" by not only the press but as well as her peers in the industry. P!nk is very respected and that is why she has been getting nods from the Grammys as opposed to our fave always getting snubbed. Just as much as Faith Hill is respected and acclaimed in the industry despite not having the same juggernaut success of Shania's Come On Over.

  Reveal hidden contents

Stream Breathe - Billboard's Top Song of the Year 2000 (despite not hitting #1 on the Hot 100)

 

Okay going back to Xtina. FYI Xtina is my #2 popstar after Brit. Not my #2 celeb fave (Paris) but my #2 popstar hero. Legend X only has two Billboard 200 #1 albums and one #2. And she achieved all of that TINY (compared to Britney who had 4 during her peak) success during her peak. After that, what? What has she achieved and done for Pop Culture? She's irrelevant now. Further more, that number is less than what P!nk has in terms of #1 albums (she has 3). Now in terms of singles, Xtina has 11 Hot 100 Top 10s. Only 11. And 3 of those are features. Her last 3 Top 10s are all FEATURES. While P!nk hasn't visited the Top 10 in recent years, her albums have been consistent #1s. Which is what Britney was during her peak. Minimal 10s but consistent #1 albums. P!nk is growing not just as an artist but as an icon and A FORCE. While Xtina has not even done a lot during her peak (because of being in Britney's shadow) and she's just diminished her icon-ness and legacy. Xtina has been touring small venues while P!nk is filling up arenas just like Madonna (altho her tickets are not as expensive as Madge's). Xtina is struggling to even fill small venues.

If you were not a fan, what images of Xtina can you remember from her music videos? Aside from the 4 that I mentioned and I stand by that and nobody can tell me otherwise - but you're free to add to that list. 💛 Maybe i'll give Genie in a Bottle a pass.

Here are some of the most enduring and instantly recognizable images of Xtina's music videos and fashion moments. Except for the first photo, all of them are from the STRIPPED era and the music videos particularly are from the 4 that I mentioned. They are iconic. They are pop culture moments.

Xtina does have one iconic look and image and performance that's not from this era and it is this.

Now do I think Xtina deserves a Vanguard because of the examples I've given? Absolutely not. We have a standard and as much as I LOVE XTINA VERY MUCH, she just came up short. And that's a hard pill to swallow for us fans and you better start swallowing that pill, too. I have all all her albums including Keeps Getting Better and except Lotus and Liberation IN PHYSICAL. But I'm not about to give her a Vanguard just cause she owns 9 inches of space on my shelf.

Lastly, remember that Billboard thread of yours? Wasn't Xtina not part of the Top 10 who are not MVPs? That list is literally a runners up list and she STILL did not make it. How pathetic can you get if you didn't even make the list of the Top 10 Losers list? Atleast J.Lo grew her empire and had a second peak and resurgence in 2011 and has managed to keep that relevance. Something Xtina hasn't done despite being in several seasons of The Voice and maybe that made all the difference as to why J.Lo got a Vanguard and Xtina didn't. J.Lo actually bounced back into the mainstream not just as an artist singer but an entertainer overall. Xtina has been A JUDGE for the most part of the period of her diminishing relevance.

Love you. 💛  

But as a casual fan what videos of previous winners stand out? And if having number one albums and singles count then how about Missy not having a #1 album nor #1 song and how she faded out of relevancy after 2003. I love her and her music but to a casual fan if we are going based off what you’ve mentioned for why Pink deserves it and not Christina then it doesn’t make sense. Same with JT - besides his career with NSYNC what memorable videos does he have besides Cry Me a River, Rock Your Body and Sexyback? We have to be fair if we are going based off chart success since Christina has sold more albums than Pink and Missy have. I can’t think of anyone who deserves it more than Eminem or Christina next. Eminem has more iconic videos than even Pink does and he’s had a consistent career. The man has 11 #1 albums. You weren’t talking about Eminem though, but even he deserved it first  

[RadicalOptimism]

4 minutes ago, Roxxy said:

Tea the red streaks AND the nose ring too (i wanted to get one in 6th grade LMAO) But it's still not iconic enough. The media and the press don't even reference those two videos when they discuss Xtina's iconic-ness. Genie AS A SONG is ICONIC. But not the video. or maybe passable. The image of her on the sand. Its very ishhh. But even if we add those 2, is that a strong enough case for a Vanguard? 

I can’t even think of the media even talking about Pinks videos though. Does she not have iconic and memorable videos? She does but I’m the perfect example of a casual fan and gp when it comes to Pink. Right now if you asked me the only videos I remember are You Make Me Sick, Get The Party Started, Lady Marmalade and Stupid Girls. And Christina made LM memorable and iconic. 

[Roxxy]

1 minute ago, CrazyButItFeelsAllright said:

But as a casual fan what videos of previous winners stand out? And if having number one albums and singles count then how about Missy not having a #1 album nor #1 song and how she faded out of relevancy after 2003. I love her and her music but to a casual fan if we are going based off what you’ve mentioned for why Pink deserves it and not Christina then it doesn’t make sense. Same with JT - besides his career with NSYNC what memorable videos does he have besides Cry Me a River, Rock Your Body and Sexyback? We have to be fair if we are going based off chart success since Christina has sold more albums than Pink and Missy have. I can’t think of anyone who deserves it more than Eminem or Christina next. Eminem has more iconic videos than even Pink does and he’s had a consistent career. The man has 11 #1 albums. You weren’t talking about Eminem though, but even he deserved it first  

We discussed Missy in the previous thread. Check it out. In summary, I discussed how Missy had more impact than Xtina during her peak and that despite having a shorter peak than Xtina, she was able to amass almost the same success that Xtina had in her 7 year peak. I also mentioned in that thread that Eminem should get it next and not Xtina.