Why did this get adopted as the pride flag?

[Sia]

7 hours ago, Viking84 said:

But you shouldn't really have a say on how trans people live their lives. It's like a white person saying what rights a black person should have. What makes you so special that you get to decide what human rights someone else has?

You can live your life however you see fit, but when your life intersects with others, then it is no longer just about you. For some reason this is a concept that is difficult for many people to grasp.

We've turned into a generation of "me me me" and we forget that coexisting is at the core of what we should be pushing towards. Coexisting is about compromise - live and let live. If you want to identify as a gender that differs from your biological s**, then by all means have at it, but compromise does not mean you get to enforce your own ideology on someone who doesn't agree with you. Others don't have to address you as your preferred gender and you have to be okay with it because you are choosing to live outside of a societal norm in a PUBLIC SPACE. If you can't deal with the fact that life is not just about you and your own feelings, then get some therapy.

Also, there is a difference between a right and a privilege and clearly, you confuse them.

[fays1]

12 minutes ago, Viking84 said:

Why should your way of life be the default and why should you decide? What makes you more important than black people or trans people? Aren't you gay? How do you feel when people say that gay people shouldn't be allowed to have equal rights because it goes against nature? You aren't using logic. You are using YOUR flawed logic to decide that other people should live their lives the way YOU think they should. Sorry but you are not only ignorant but also very selfish.

My way of life shouldnt be the default, it should be democratically agreen on. Im just giving my personal opinion in the hope to change others opinion. But you tell me I shouldnt even give my opinion because im not trans, or black, or whatever, and thats where we disagree.

Edited June 21, 2023 by fays1

[Sia]

10 minutes ago, Viking84 said:

Why should your way of life be the default and why should you decide? What makes you more important than black people or trans people? Aren't you gay? How do you feel when people say that gay people shouldn't be allowed to have equal rights because it goes against nature? You aren't using logic. You are using YOUR flawed logic to decide that other people should live their lives the way YOU think they should. Sorry but you are not only ignorant but also very selfish.

Why should your way of life be the default and why should you decide?
There is a thing called societal norms. These can and will always change as people evolve, but change takes time. 

 

What makes you more important than black people or trans people?
Pretty sure the other commentator never said anything about being more important than either of those groups. Why are you putting words in people's mouths?

 

Aren't you gay? How do you feel when people say that gay people shouldn't be allowed to have equal rights because it goes against nature?
Yes I am gay and I'm pretty sure the black civil rights movement was not about black people wanting to be identified as "white" but rather that they wanted the same rights as white people. The gay civil rights movement was also not about gay people wanting to be identified as "straight", but rather they wanted the same rights as hetero***ual people. We got it and by proxy, the trans community also has those rights. So please enlighten me on what "civil rights" the trans community is fighting for?

[Viking84]

1 hour ago, Sia said:

You can live your life however you see fit, but when your life intersects with others, then it is no longer just about you. For some reason this is a concept that is difficult for many people to grasp.

We've turned into a generation of "me me me" and we forget that coexisting is at the core of what we should be pushing towards. Coexisting is about compromise - live and let live. If you want to identify as a gender that differs from your biological s**, then by all means have at it, but compromise does not mean you get to enforce your own ideology on someone who doesn't agree with you. Others don't have to address you as your preferred gender and you have to be okay with it because you are choosing to live outside of a societal norm in a PUBLIC SPACE. If you can't deal with the fact that life is not just about you and your own feelings, then get some therapy.

Also, there is a difference between a right and a privilege and clearly, you confuse them.

My God, your total lack of self-awareness. Don't you realise that YOU are the person who is forcing your ideologies on others? Nobody is telling you how to live your life. You are the one who is dictating how trans people should live their life. Societal norms evolve and should be questioned. You don't accept racism just because it's a societal norm, do you? Follow your own advice. Get some therapy because you obviously think everyone around you should live the way you want them to.

[Viking84]

1 hour ago, fays1 said:

My way of life shouldnt be the default, it should be democratically agreen on. Im just giving my personal opinion in the hope to change others opinion. But you tell me I shouldnt even give my opinion because im not trans, or black, or whatever, and thats where we disagree.

So you agree with the eradication of Jews in **** Germany? That was democratically agreed on. You see now how your opinion is flawed?

[Viking84]

1 hour ago, Sia said:

Why should your way of life be the default and why should you decide?
There is a thing called societal norms. These can and will always change as people evolve, but change takes time. 

 

What makes you more important than black people or trans people?
Pretty sure the other commentator never said anything about being more important than either of those groups. Why are you putting words in people's mouths?

 

Aren't you gay? How do you feel when people say that gay people shouldn't be allowed to have equal rights because it goes against nature?
Yes I am gay and I'm pretty sure the black civil rights movement was not about black people wanting to be identified as "white" but rather that they wanted the same rights as white people. The gay civil rights movement was also not about gay people wanting to be identified as "straight", but rather they wanted the same rights as hetero***ual people. We got it and by proxy, the trans community also has those rights. So please enlighten me on what "civil rights" the trans community is fighting for?

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ First you say we must accept societal norms, then you give examples of how oppressed minorities have had to fight against them to get their rights. Then you claim trans people have equal rights by proxy. I mean, I don't even know where to begin. Your logic is all over the place. 🤣 

I am shocked how this is a mainly gay community and how ignorant so many people are here. Geez, you are gay but have made no effort to understand other minorities. You judge despite knowing the pain of being judged. I know Britney fans are generally not known to be the smartest people but seriously... Get a book. Speak to a trans person. 

[toxiccriminal]

2 hours ago, Sia said:

I would argue that the "new" trans community is the radical equivalent of what we see on the radical right (yep I said it) and it's evident in the lack of support from the LGB community.

The "gay rights movement" was always based on driving equality with respect to basic human rights i.e. marriage and work protections. You are right that the trans community helped drive that movement, but that was only because the community as a whole was always categorized as the "gay community" and nobody took offense to it.

Nowadays you're cancelled for mis-gendering someone with a beard as a "he." It's all so ridiculous and frankly, I'm not behind it.

I would argue that the lack of support from the LGB community is actually a glaring reflection of the transphobia that's present in the community.

Also, nobody is automatically canceled for misgendering someone. Where it becomes an issue is when someone is corrected ("oh, I actually use X/Y/Z pronouns") and then they continue to misgender someone.

It's really not asking for a lot for people to alter their language, especially when they refer to another person, out of respect for how they identify. If you disagree with that statement, then I think we just fundamentally disagree on how to show basic respect for others, and there's no point in this discussion.

[britney_rocks]

For me it stopped being cute when some people want to use xe/xem/xyrs/xemself pronouns. Can't take this **** serious. 

 

[Malibu.D.Luxx]

This might actually be the post that has me stop visiting this site. Nothing is breaking news anymore, and there’s rarely any exclusives. Now people are just showing their ***** on bs posts that get main paged. SMH. Y’all LGB *****es are gross and should be ashamed. 

[Sia]

1 hour ago, Viking84 said:

My God, your total lack of self-awareness. Don't you realise that YOU are the person who is forcing your ideologies on others? Nobody is telling you how to live your life. You are the one who is dictating how trans people should live their life. Societal norms evolve and should be questioned. You don't accept racism just because it's a societal norm, do you? Follow your own advice. Get some therapy because you obviously think everyone around you should live the way you want them to.

How exactly am I dictating how a trans person should live? Am I telling them NOT to be trans? Please explain.

If gender identity is about SELF-IDENTITY, then my opinion should have no effect on your own identity because it is your own. If you need MY validation in order to accept your gender identity, then it's no longer about you. You can be a biological male identifying as female and do whatever you please, but that doesn't mean I have to see you as that.

It's quite simple...

[Sia]

1 hour ago, Viking84 said:

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ First you say we must accept societal norms, then you give examples of how oppressed minorities have had to fight against them to get their rights. Then you claim trans people have equal rights by proxy. I mean, I don't even know where to begin. Your logic is all over the place. 🤣 

I am shocked how this is a mainly gay community and how ignorant so many people are here. Geez, you are gay but have made no effort to understand other minorities. You judge despite knowing the pain of being judged. I know Britney fans are generally not known to be the smartest people but seriously... Get a book. Speak to a trans person. 

Haha...I understand it quite well actually, it's your boxed thinking that keeps you from understanding how societies are built and function.

Let me explain it this way...

Up until the late 1960's, interracial marriage was illegal in the United States. Of course that was built on the morality and societal norms of the time and it was eventually changed. So yes, societal norms can change and should evolve for the betterment of society, however, that's where the debate starts. Who defines what betterment is? You? Me? I could call you selfish just as much as you call me ignorant. So who is right?

Anyway, when interracial marriage was made legal, it only impact those that it oppressed. It did not impact those who did not believe in it. And that's the way it should be.

Even today, there are people out there who likely still believe that marriage should be kept within a race and this isn't exclusive to white people, many minorities believe this. But guess what, just because interracial marriage is legal does not mean people who do not agree with it should accept or practice in it.

This is the exact OPPOSITE of what the trans-movement is trying to do. The trans-movement is not just saying "we want to be accepted," it wants to FORCE those who do not agree with that ideology into participating in it. THAT'S where you lose me.

Just like I would not force a white person who is against interracial marriage to marry a person of color, the trans-community should not force others into adopting the ideology into their daily lives.

The discussion around the trans-movement is not about civil liberties and somehow, you fail to see that. They're not fighting for freedom to marry, freedom to vote, freedom to hold office, freedom to walk around dressed in whatever gender they identify as, etc. The movement is focused on inserting itself into the lives of those who may not agree with it.

The fact that a good chunk of the gay community is not behind the current movement should actually tell you how backwards it is.

[Sia]

1 hour ago, toxiccriminal said:

I would argue that the lack of support from the LGB community is actually a glaring reflection of the transphobia that's present in the community.

Also, nobody is automatically canceled for misgendering someone. Where it becomes an issue is when someone is corrected ("oh, I actually use X/Y/Z pronouns") and then they continue to misgender someone.

It's really not asking for a lot for people to alter their language, especially when they refer to another person, out of respect for how they identify. If you disagree with that statement, then I think we just fundamentally disagree on how to show basic respect for others, and there's no point in this discussion.

I get where you're coming from but by your logic, an atheist should accept the existence of God in order to appease a Christian - and vice versa.

Or the alternative is that the atheist accept that some do believe in God and the Christian should accept that not everyone does. They both can preach and share their beliefs, but not at the expense of forcing others to accept it as their own belief.

[fays1]

6 hours ago, Viking84 said:

So you agree with the eradication of Jews in **** Germany? That was democratically agreed on. You see now how your opinion is flawed?

So now im a **** because I support democracy? lol

Part of Democracy is we vote of things, but also there is a set human rights in the constitution that cant change. So you cant kill Jews and eradicate them.

[Lucky☆]

Ohh my neighbors have that flag and I didn’t know the meaning of it 

[Viking84]

12 hours ago, Sia said:

How exactly am I dictating how a trans person should live? Am I telling them NOT to be trans? Please explain.

If gender identity is about SELF-IDENTITY, then my opinion should have no effect on your own identity because it is your own. If you need MY validation in order to accept your gender identity, then it's no longer about you. You can be a biological male identifying as female and do whatever you please, but that doesn't mean I have to see you as that.

It's quite simple...

Nobody is telling you to think anything. This is not about your opinion. This is about the law and human rights. I don't give a damn about your opinion.

[Viking84]

11 hours ago, Sia said:

Haha...I understand it quite well actually, it's your boxed thinking that keeps you from understanding how societies are built and function.

Let me explain it this way...

Up until the late 1960's, interracial marriage was illegal in the United States. Of course that was built on the morality and societal norms of the time and it was eventually changed. So yes, societal norms can change and should evolve for the betterment of society, however, that's where the debate starts. Who defines what betterment is? You? Me? I could call you selfish just as much as you call me ignorant. So who is right?

Anyway, when interracial marriage was made legal, it only impact those that it oppressed. It did not impact those who did not believe in it. And that's the way it should be.

Even today, there are people out there who likely still believe that marriage should be kept within a race and this isn't exclusive to white people, many minorities believe this. But guess what, just because interracial marriage is legal does not mean people who do not agree with it should accept or practice in it.

This is the exact OPPOSITE of what the trans-movement is trying to do. The trans-movement is not just saying "we want to be accepted," it wants to FORCE those who do not agree with that ideology into participating in it. THAT'S where you lose me.

Just like I would not force a white person who is against interracial marriage to marry a person of color, the trans-community should not force others into adopting the ideology into their daily lives.

The discussion around the trans-movement is not about civil liberties and somehow, you fail to see that. They're not fighting for freedom to marry, freedom to vote, freedom to hold office, freedom to walk around dressed in whatever gender they identify as, etc. The movement is focused on inserting itself into the lives of those who may not agree with it.

The fact that a good chunk of the gay community is not behind the current movement should actually tell you how backwards it is.

No, that is not true at all. Trans people want the freedom to be who they are by law and not to be discriminated against. Nobody is forcing you to change your opinion about anything. It's exactly like laws protecting the equal rights of any other minority. You can stay a racist, homophobe or transphobe if you choose. But your narrow-mindedness should not limit the human rights of another minority. It's your boxed thinking and lack of understanding of what being trans actually is, not mine.

[Viking84]

7 hours ago, fays1 said:

So now im a **** because I support democracy? lol

Part of Democracy is we vote of things, but also there is a set human rights in the constitution that cant change. So you cant kill Jews and eradicate them.

My point is that democracy is not ALWAYS a good thing. When the majority of a nation votes against gay rights, black people's rights etc, that's not a good thing. This is what you are insinuating. You are saying that trans people should have limited rights based on the votes of others. This is basically the same as saying Jews should have been eradicated in **** Germany because most people voted for them.

Constitutions are also laws which can be changed. The world also doesn't revolve around the US.

It's really shameful that there is so much prejudice against other minority groups in a place like this which is mostly gay. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Viking84

[fays1]

4 hours ago, Viking84 said:

My point is that democracy is not ALWAYS a good thing. When the majority of a nation votes against gay rights, black people's rights etc, that's not a good thing. This is what you are insinuating. You are saying that trans people should have limited rights based on the votes of others. This is basically the same as saying Jews should have been eradicated in **** Germany because most people voted for them.

Constitutions are also laws which can be changed. The world also doesn't revolve around the US.

It's really shameful that there is so much prejudice against other minority groups in a place like this which is mostly gay. 

But I never talked about limiting trans human rights, I was talking about the philosophical difference between s** and gender.

While Democracy is not always good, its still the best thing we can come up with as of today. And we all know that Democracy is not enough, which is why we have a constitution that override Democracy incase the majority votes against human rights.

[Viking84]

1 hour ago, fays1 said:

But I never talked about limiting trans human rights, I was talking about the philosophical difference between s** and gender.

While Democracy is not always good, its still the best thing we can come up with as of today. And we all know that Democracy is not enough, which is why we have a constitution that override Democracy incase the majority votes against human rights.

Philosophy is a load of bull. It's a precursor to science which has no place in modern society.

All trans people are aware of the difference between s** and gender. But the point is, nobody CHOOSES to be trans. People are born trans, just as they are born gay or straight or black or white. Forcing a trans person not to live a genuine life is like making gay s** illegal for gays or forcing black people to sit on the back of the bus. Nobody should be allowed to do that.

The constitution is created by man. It is also a set of laws. The US almost became a dictatorship under Trump so don't underestimate what people are capable of. And I repeat, the US is only one country. I am talking about the whole world, not just the US. I live in Europe. In most of the world, trans people have no rights at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fays1]

48 minutes ago, Viking84 said:

Philosophy is a load of bull. It's a precursor to science which has no place in modern society.

All trans people are aware of the difference between s** and gender. But the point is, nobody CHOOSES to be trans. People are born trans, just as they are born gay or straight or black or white. Forcing a trans person not to live a genuine life is like making gay s** illegal for gays or forcing black people to sit on the back of the bus. Nobody should be allowed to do that.

The constitution is created by man. It is also a set of laws. The US almost became a dictatorship under Trump so don't underestimate what people are capable of. And I repeat, the US is only one country. I am talking about the whole world, not just the US. I live in Europe. In most of the world, trans people have no rights at all.

You keep putting words in my mouth! I never said trans people choose to be trans! The subject I was talking about is weather trans women are literally women, or are they men who transitioned to women. This has nothing to do with their legal rights and laws, or saying trans women are not real. Science have no answer to weather society should go by gender or s**, you need philosophy for that.

I know the constitution is man made, but literally everything is man made, we dont have real gods to guide us, or a objective set of rules. And the US never became a dictatorship under Trump lol

Edited June 22, 2023 by fays1