FOR THE AUDIOPHILES: Best Lossless versions of tracks that have multiple versions, based on Dynamic Range and NO CLIPPING (CD Sources only)

[GregReid]

3 hours ago, floopy22 said:

Don't waste your time on 24-bit audio. There is no use from it for listening purposes. It is used as a marketing gimmick to sell a supposedly "premium" product.
24-bit dynamic range is useful in recording and processing where you need a lot of dynamic range to not introduce noise after several stages of level mixing, processing and effects.

16-bit (which is the standard in CD and other formats) is enough by a good margin to contain the full dynamic range perceptible to humans. Besides, as soon as music is compressed (no, not digital data compression such as mp3), compressed as in the highs and lows of the sound waves are brough closer to each other, you lose a ton of dynamic range. In other words, no music that have been compressed make use of the full dynamic range of 16-bit audio.

Let me tell you, uncompressed music sounds DULL. There is a reason why we compress music. However, there is a thing as taking it too far which is why we have "the loudness wars" debate.

Dynamic range can refer to different things. When we talk about bits we talk about data storage resolution of different loudness levels. Then there is actual dynamic range of sound which is usually measured in RMS dBFS, which is the average loudness over a short period of time. It is measured in negative values, with pop music averaging in the -10 dBFS to -7 dBFS range RMS. As for the "DR" unit mentioned earlier, that is not really a thing. The standard is dB (in its various variants).

Agreed about 24 bit audio

I believe the 'DR' number was a term made by the founder of https://dr.loudness-war.info  to determine an 'average' number based on everything you mentioned, and is used in all available available and associated with that website. 

Thanks for explaining it all though!

[GregReid]

*Updated with 'Oops!... I Did It Again' Original Single (2000) and 'Toxic' Original Single (2004) 

[Dream Within a Dream]

On 11/21/2020 at 10:47 PM, floopy22 said:

Don't waste your time on 24-bit audio. There is no use from it for listening purposes. It is used as a marketing gimmick to sell a supposedly "premium" product.
24-bit dynamic range is useful in recording and processing where you need a lot of dynamic range to not introduce noise after several stages of level mixing, processing and effects.

16-bit (which is the standard in CD and other formats) is enough by a good margin to contain the full dynamic range perceptible to humans. Besides, as soon as music is compressed (no, not digital data compression such as mp3), compressed as in the highs and lows of the sound waves are brough closer to each other, you lose a ton of dynamic range. In other words, no music that have been compressed make use of the full dynamic range of 16-bit audio.

Let me tell you, uncompressed music sounds DULL. There is a reason why we compress music. However, there is a thing as taking it too far which is why we have "the loudness wars" debate.

Dynamic range can refer to different things. When we talk about bits we talk about data storage resolution of different loudness levels. Then there is actual dynamic range of sound which is usually measured in RMS dBFS, which is the average loudness over a short period of time. It is measured in negative values, with pop music averaging in the -10 dBFS to -7 dBFS range RMS. As for the "DR" unit mentioned earlier, that is not really a thing. The standard is dB (in its various variants).

I have to disagree, i often like to play music at the highest quality the label will provide to avoid sludge hammer down sampling to CD quality. It’s not that CD can’t do it, it’s just that some of the time the compression is not done properly. You’re also more likely to find ‘loudness war’ free tracks that way. 

[floopy22]

16 hours ago, Dream Within a Dream said:

I have to disagree, i often like to play music at the highest quality the label will provide to avoid sludge hammer down sampling to CD quality. It’s not that CD can’t do it, it’s just that some of the time the compression is not done properly. You’re also more likely to find ‘loudness war’ free tracks that way. 

It's not guaranteed to be a different master just because it's a different bit depth or sampling rate. Dithering and/or a downsampling filter is literally the only step between a mastered track and a CD quality format. It doesnt require a remaster. Besides, that wasn't my point. Sure, if you can find a less dynamically compressed version go ahead. But please realize this has nothing to do with being 24-bit.

[Dream Within a Dream]

3 hours ago, floopy22 said:

It's not guaranteed to be a different master just because it's a different bit depth or sampling rate. Dithering and/or a downsampling filter is literally the only step between a mastered track and a CD quality format. It doesnt require a remaster. Besides, that wasn't my point. Sure, if you can find a less dynamically compressed version go ahead. But please realize this has nothing to do with being 24-bit.

I mean Circus on the 24-bit version has a higher DR score than the 16-bit version. The only possible scenario i can see this happening is that the downsampling to CD quality was mediocre. 

[Nickey]

Such an amazing thread! 

I'm very keen on audio stuff as well. And I'm surprised some of the songs apparently have different dynamic range on different CDs  

Personally, I don't like how does Glory sound. Too loud and there's clipping on some songs, so unproffessional. ITZ isn't her best also 

I have In The Zone on vinyl and it says it's mastered by a different person than the original CD. But the MP3 files which came from the digital download with the vinyl seem like it's the original CD master from 2003... Or they remastered it using the old CD and there's almost no difference? But what about the dynamic range vinyls should have? Why didn't they use unmastered versions? There's too many questions and I think I'm too dramatic to be an audiophile 

 

[Nickey]

Okay this was such a cool thread, not me killing this one 

[floopy22]

On 11/23/2020 at 10:37 PM, Dream Within a Dream said:

I mean Circus on the 24-bit version has a higher DR score than the 16-bit version. The only possible scenario i can see this happening is that the downsampling to CD quality was mediocre. 

It has nothing to do with downsampling (dithering to be more correct) or the format itself. They must have used a different master (less compression). They could have easily used the same mastering on the CD version.

[floopy22]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:52 PM, Nickey said:

Such an amazing thread! 

I'm very keen on audio stuff as well. And I'm surprised some of the songs apparently have different dynamic range on different CDs  

Personally, I don't like how does Glory sound. Too loud and there's clipping on some songs, so unproffessional. ITZ isn't her best also 

I have In The Zone on vinyl and it says it's mastered by a different person than the original CD. But the MP3 files which came from the digital download with the vinyl seem like it's the original CD master from 2003... Or they remastered it using the old CD and there's almost no difference? But what about the dynamic range vinyls should have? Why didn't they use unmastered versions? There's too many questions and I think I'm too dramatic to be an audiophile 

 

Vinyl requires different mastering because it cannot tolerate such loudness as CD does (improperly mastered vinyl can actually cause the needle to skip!). This is why people claim vinyl has more dynamic range, which is actually wrong. Vinyl has around 80 dB of dynamic range, whereas CD has up to 150 dB (with proper dithering at the master stage).

You'd be stupid to use unmastered tracks. Mastering is done for several reasons, and it doesn't automatically mean there will be lots of compression.

This is a useful no-bs resource for common myths around vinyl and CD:

Myths (Vinyl) - Hydrogenaudio Knowledgebase

Oh, and being an audiophile is not something to be proud of. It's basically on flat-earther level. As an example, the science around digital sampling was proven and settled way back in the 1930's (Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem). This was even before the CD was invented!

[Dream Within a Dream]

8 hours ago, floopy22 said:

Vinyl requires different mastering because it cannot tolerate such loudness as CD does (improperly mastered vinyl can actually cause the needle to skip!). This is why people claim vinyl has more dynamic range, which is actually wrong. Vinyl has around 80 dB of dynamic range, whereas CD has up to 150 dB (with proper dithering at the master stage).

You'd be stupid to use unmastered tracks. Mastering is done for several reasons, and it doesn't automatically mean there will be lots of compression.

This is a useful no-bs resource for common myths around vinyl and CD:

Myths (Vinyl) - Hydrogenaudio Knowledgebase

Oh, and being an audiophile is not something to be proud of. It's basically on flat-earther level. As an example, the science around digital sampling was proven and settled way back in the 1930's (Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem). This was even before the CD was invented!

I agree with the flat earther comment, there are people spending Thousands of dollars on cables that actually measure worse than Amazon Basics.

I don't know you if you know this forum Audio Science Review, they discuss audio in a scientific and objective matter. The host occasionally reviews new equipment on the market by measuring their performance on a scientific basis. it honestly changed my life.

[Nickey]

On 11/21/2020 at 10:47 PM, floopy22 said:

Don't waste your time on 24-bit audio. There is no use from it for listening purposes. It is used as a marketing gimmick to sell a supposedly "premium" product.
24-bit dynamic range is useful in recording and processing where you need a lot of dynamic range to not introduce noise after several stages of level mixing, processing and effects.

16-bit (which is the standard in CD and other formats) is enough by a good margin to contain the full dynamic range perceptible to humans. Besides, as soon as music is compressed (no, not digital data compression such as mp3), compressed as in the highs and lows of the sound waves are brough closer to each other, you lose a ton of dynamic range. In other words, no music that have been compressed make use of the full dynamic range of 16-bit audio.

Let me tell you, uncompressed music sounds DULL. There is a reason why we compress music. However, there is a thing as taking it too far which is why we have "the loudness wars" debate.

Dynamic range can refer to different things. When we talk about bits we talk about data storage resolution of different loudness levels. Then there is actual dynamic range of sound which is usually measured in RMS dBFS, which is the average loudness over a short period of time. It is measured in negative values, with pop music averaging in the -10 dBFS to -7 dBFS range RMS. As for the "DR" unit mentioned earlier, that is not really a thing. The standard is dB (in its various variants).

So true!

Some albums don't even "use" the frequencies 24bit audio has. 

I read on Steve Hoffman forum that Madonna's Like a virgin isn't even 16-bit but...12-bit? Something around that 

It's because it's a digital recording and they didn't have a 16-bit equipment yet.

[GregReid]

Updated with 'Born to Make You Happy' Original Single and 'I Love Rock 'N' Roll' Limited Edition Original Single 

[GregReid]

On 11/28/2020 at 2:23 PM, Nickey said:

Okay this was such a cool thread, not me killing this one 

You didn't kill it sweetie!

Thanks for commenting! I really appreciate it and I did really feel quite cute  when you said it was an 'amazing' thread

I definitely blushed 

I AGREE about Glory, very disappointing when you see the amount of clipping on it! 

and I HEAR YOU I get VERY dramatic and **** about everything  it's tough, and it does all gets very confusing! That's kind of why I'm sticking simply to the CD versions of things for this thread. I'm not ready to open up that can of worms yet 

I suppose for the digital download they'd rather use the original CD master because MP3 (isn't close to CD quality) is closer in it's terms of limitations and the amount of 'bit'/frequency it can hold etc (Lossless CD files are 16 bit and MP3 can't be anymore than that, in the simplest terms, IF that makes sense  I'm so bad at explaining I apologise.)

The album would have had to be mastered differently for vinyl if they wanted the best quality for it, because vinyl and turntables are 'analog' and don't require a 'DAC' (digital-to-analog converter, which all digital audio outputs - CD players, phones laptops etc) - to be able to output an audio. NOW that again this is another ball game because for amazing audio you need a good quality external DAC BUT again..... another topic ) If they used the vinyl mastering for the MP3 files, it would have had a whole different sound and oh god I could GO ON and on.

If I'm honest, vinyl is a whole other ball game in terms of frequencies and everything else.

ANYWAY, worst explainer ever but I hope that made sense. Thank you for comment  

[GregReid]

Updated with 'Don't Let Me Be The Last To Know' Enhanced CD Limited Edition - Original Single

[GregReid]

Updated with 'Me Against The Music' Original Single :)

[SupTJ]

On 11/14/2020 at 10:35 PM, CripplerCrossface said:

Yeah, like you said every record had a different mastered process, there was one from late 90s to late 2000s, other in 2009, other in 2010 and from 2011 there's other which is very well done by now. So, the version of, for example, BOMT in the 1999 album wouldn't be same as in The Singles Collection and both wouldn't be the same as in The Essential.

And normally the singles CDs were mastered for radio that's why they sound different. With the new process of mastering since 2011 the dynamic range problem was fixed without losing volume, so is loud but with dynamics

And yeah, Blackout, Circus, Femme Fatale, Britney Jean (Standard) and Glory (even the 2020 version) are the only available in 24 bits and a rip of a DVD of ITZ is around on forums. I could send you links if you wanted

I would really really appreciate some links especially the in the zone. Thanks in advance!

Wow a lot of cool info in this thread 

[GregReid]

Updated with 'Sometimes' Original Single and 'Do Somethin' Original Single :)

[GregReid]

Updated with:

'From The Bottom Of My Broken Heart' Original Single

'Outrageous' Original Maxi Single
'My Prerogative' Original Single

'(Someday) I Will Understand)' Original Japanese EP

'Blackout' Japanese Edition

'Playlist: The Very Best of Britney Spears'

[Innate]

On 11/15/2020 at 5:07 PM, Tetris said:

I have, like, 7 alternate versions of Breathe On Me, not evening counting the official remixes. 

Taste 

I’d love to see your iTunes. I’m the same with mine and I have quite a few Breathe On Me mixes and versions too. I love this one...

I cut out Slave and 

[JordansGutBucketBotto]

Cries in Trouble