Trans vs Detrans debate. Interesting watch

[everybodygoesdown]

1 minute ago, Viking84 said:

Totally get your point. I think that's a good argument for not allowing genital surgery until after 18. However, it is important that hormones are administered at the right time because once a trans person has gone through puberty, it is impossible for them to have a normal life. It's too late. Their life is already partially destroyed.  By not allowing hormone treatment before puberty, there would be a 100% guarantee that all trans people will have worse lives.

 

But is it reversable ? Like if you hold back puberty, does it just come when you stop taking the hormones ? And are there no long term damages to your body ?

[Viking84]

4 minutes ago, everybodygoesdown said:

But is it reversable ? Like if you hold back puberty, does it just come when you stop taking the hormones ? And are there no long term damages to your body ?

Well, now you are talking about puberty blockers. They temporary affect bone density but other than that, there is no real evidence that they are unsafe. Puberty does naturally resume when you stop taking them.Then there are hormones, which are the goal of someone who needs to transition. 

Whichever way you look at it, I feel like people are putting too much emphasis on the potential negatives of allowing minors to transition and totally ignoring the guaranteed harm and danger of NOT allowing it. Not allowing it and thereby forcing them to go into puberty is guaranteed to have devastating effects on their health. Sometimes inaction is worse than action.

 

[ICouldntThinkOfOne]

18 hours ago, The Greatest Show said:

 

Your brain doesn't finish developing until you are 25. Making a permanent life changing choice like chemically castrating yourself at 13 should not be allowed. You can not concent at that age. 

*consent

Drivers are recognised in parts of the usa at 16. Adults are legally recognised at 18. Alcohol is served to those above 21. 

Your 25 comment is just transphobia for the sake of it, while trying to appear as "scientifically legit"

[The Greatest Show]

39 minutes ago, Viking84 said:

How would you define a mental illness?

And where are you getting that statistic from?

Whatever that number is, I guarantee you that the suicide rate would be the lowest if trans people were able to take hormones before puberty hits. 

Lastly, why are you so full of hatred? What did your parents do to you? Were you not loved enough?

I am not full of hatred. That is why I'm against mutilating abd castrating children that might be going through a phase or are just confused. Children are VERY maluable and easy to confuse. Also a lot of "trans" kids turn out to be gay men as adults. 

 

I dont believe in irreversibly harming children if there is a chance that they are not actually trans. Any person who has kids or knows kids should get that.  That has nothing to do with me hating trans people, i don't. I have a lot of sympathy and pity for them. But messing with kids is where I draw the line.

[The Greatest Show]

9 minutes ago, ICouldntThinkOfOne said:

*consent

Drivers are recognised in parts of the usa at 16. Adults are legally recognised at 18. Alcohol is served to those above 21. 

Your 25 comment is just transphobia for the sake of it, while trying to appear as "scientifically legit"

No. 

[The Greatest Show]

32 minutes ago, Viking84 said:

Well, now you are talking about puberty blockers. They temporary affect bone density but other than that, there is no real evidence that they are unsafe. Puberty does naturally resume when you stop taking them.Then there are hormones, which are the goal of someone who needs to transition. 

Whichever way you look at it, I feel like people are putting too much emphasis on the potential negatives of allowing minors to transition and totally ignoring the guaranteed harm and danger of NOT allowing it. Not allowing it and thereby forcing them to go into puberty is guaranteed to have devastating effects on their health. Sometimes inaction is worse than action.

 

 

Puberty blockers chemically castrate you and young boys don't develope a proper ***** if they take them. That also makes bottom surgery a nightmare and a lifelong health issue for them.

[AII]

22 hours ago, Neydelinska Spearsi said:

 

Ok I'll bite. But how is disliking woke being trans phobic and moreover, racist? How? Make it make sense.

If you dislike lets say- heavy metal music that doesn't make you phobic or anti-music by default. Unless, we got full Orwellian and we don't have rights to dislike things, stuff, genres, routes....

Be careful or you will get cancelled for cancelling something that should be cancelled in a world where cancellation is trans 😶‍🌫️

[AII]

45 minutes ago, ICouldntThinkOfOne said:

*consent

Drivers are recognised in parts of the usa at 16. Adults are legally recognised at 18. Alcohol is served to those above 21. 

Your 25 comment is just transphobia for the sake of it, while trying to appear as "scientifically legit"

There shouldn't be drivers under 25 and alcohol shouldn't be served to people under 25 either. Just because something is allowed it doesn't mean it's the right thing. ❤️❤️

[Viking84]

53 minutes ago, The Greatest Show said:

I am not full of hatred. That is why I'm against mutilating abd castrating children that might be going through a phase or are just confused. Children are VERY maluable and easy to confuse. Also a lot of "trans" kids turn out to be gay men as adults. 

 

I dont believe in irreversibly harming children if there is a chance that they are not actually trans. Any person who has kids or knows kids should get that.  That has nothing to do with me hating trans people, i don't. I have a lot of sympathy and pity for them. But messing with kids is where I draw the line.

Nobody is making anybody do anything. This is about giving children the possibility of a happy future. If trans kids are forced to go through puberty, they are guaranteed a difficult life with lots of health problems. 

And you are definitely full of hatred. Your tone and comments make that pretty obvious. You are clearly a very miserable person. I pity you.

 

 

[Steve W]

On 4/3/2023 at 4:26 AM, Viking84 said:

People should transition before puberty hits because doing it after puberty exposes them to a whole range of problems. There is also a huge grey area of trans people who never come out or have gender correction surgery who commit suicide because of it.

To summarise: there may be a small number of people who regret it, but I guarantee you the number of people who regret doing it too late or who commit suicide because they never did it or did it too late is 1000 times bigger. So there isn't really much of a discussion to be had. People should be able to do it before they hit puberty. End of story.

A child’s  brain has not fully developed before puberty. Parents should not allow children to transition until they fully comprehend what exactly it all entails. I am sure many kids think they comprehend yet they do not. They should be getting help with their future transitioning through counseling and find support. You also have to pay for it as well, very costly.  Be who ever you want to be yet transitioning before puberty is insane in my opinion. Your a kid . Be a kid .  Its best to wait until adulthood to transition. Yet be who ever you want to be , I think 21 is a better age. Its a tough world out there. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Steve W

[Steve W]

1 hour ago, Viking84 said:

Nobody is making anybody do anything. This is about giving children the possibility of a happy future. If trans kids are forced to go through puberty, they are guaranteed a difficult life with lots of health problems. 

And you are definitely full of hatred. Your tone and comments make that pretty obvious. You are clearly a very miserable person. I pity you.

 

 

Your being hateful now

[Steve W]

1 hour ago, Viking84 said:

Nobody is making anybody do anything. This is about giving children the possibility of a happy future. If trans kids are forced to go through puberty, they are guaranteed a difficult life with lots of health problems. 

And you are definitely full of hatred. Your tone and comments make that pretty obvious. You are clearly a very miserable person. I pity you.

 

 

Who is paying for this ? I get wanting but for many it will never be a reality. A child is a child . Their brains are all over the place . These kids need support, education, counseling and time to process their thoughts. At 21 if you can afford to pay for this service . Then go for it . Be you . Be the best you. Yeah I disagree on kids having surgery to transition. Wait until 21 and get help navigating your issues. If you have suicidal thoughts , get help immediately. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Steve W

[Viking84]

13 minutes ago, Steve W said:

A child’s  brain has not fully developed before puberty. Parents should not allow children to transition until they fully comprehend what exactly it all entails. I am sure many kids think they comprehend yet they do not. They should be getting help with their future transitioning through counseling and find support. You also have to pay for it as well, very costly.  Be who ever you want to be yet transitioning before puberty is insane in my opinion. Your a kid . Be a kid .  Its best to wait until adulthood to transition. Yet be who ever you want to be , I think 21 is a better age. Its a tough world out there. 

 

7 minutes ago, Steve W said:

Who is paying for this ? I get wanting but for many it will never be a reality. A child is a child . Their brains are all over the place . These kids need support, education, counseling and time to process their thoughts. At 21 if you can afford to pay for this service . Then go for it . Be you . Be the best you. Yeah I disagree on kids having surgery to transition. Wait until 21 and get help navigating your issues. If you have suicidal thoughts , get help immediately. 

Once again, we aren't talking about surgery. We are talking about taking puberty blockers or hormone to stop undesired puberty from permanently destroying a trans person's body. By forcing them to wait until adulthood, you are guaranteeing that every trans person's life will be permanently destroyed. This is a fact. The mind if not developed fully until 25, but that doesn't mean that you should not be able to make any decisions for yourself until that age.

As for the cost, well this should be covered by universal healthcare. It's a medical issue just as much as any other. If you live in a country without universal healthcare, then that is also a problem.

The basic point here is that you don't understand that this is a condition someone is born with and if it is not dealt with before puberty, it guarantees permanent damage. So you are advocating for guaranteed health damage for all trans people with your opinions. And as a non-trans person speaking on behalf of trans people, you are acting like a white person talking about what a black person's rights should be or a man talking about what a woman's rights should be. You should have no say. It's not your business.

[Steve W]

2 hours ago, AII said:

There shouldn't be drivers under 25 and alcohol shouldn't be served to people under 25 either. Just because something is allowed it doesn't mean it's the right thing. ❤️❤️

25 is a bit much . Sorry drivers is a topic now ? 16 is a great age to start them ( better to get use to the roads earlier) , get a job as well at 16. Many parents need help and many children have to work to pay for college or to help their families in many scenarios. 21 is enough for drinking legally in America  . I do not think transitioning should happen until 21 as well , in my opinion  .. legal adulthood with a lot counseling as well in needed.  Yet be you afterwards .  25 is a pass, yet again for many changing is a pipe dream. Surgery is expensive. A 21 year old can comprehend the magnitude of their decision. People are lucky today they have the capability to provide this surgery. Years ago this was not an option. Many do not agree or comply . Be prepared for hate on another level. The world is a cruel place unfortunately. Yet color your world. Be the best version of you. I support trans . Yet I believe a child brain needs more time to comprehend their possible future. 

[Steve W]

5 minutes ago, Viking84 said:

 

Once again, we aren't talking about surgery. We are talking about taking puberty blockers or hormone to stop undesired puberty from permanently destroying a trans person's body. By forcing them to wait until adulthood, you are guaranteeing that every trans person's life will be permanently destroyed. This is a fact. The mind if not developed fully until 25, but that doesn't mean that you should not be able to make any decisions for yourself until that age.

As for the cost, well this should be covered by universal healthcare. It's a medical issue just as much as any other. If you live in a country without universal healthcare, then that is also a problem.

The basic point here is that you don't understand that this is a condition someone is born with and if it is not dealt with before puberty, it guarantees permanent damage. So you are advocating for guaranteed health damage for all trans people with your opinions. And as a non-trans person speaking on behalf of trans people, you are acting like a white person talking about what a black person's rights should be or a man talking about what a woman's rights should be. You should have no say. It's not your business.

Its a parents right as a parent . A child is a child . I get your anger . Yet unfortunately I disagree and thats ok. Get those kids who are on the verge of suicide into counseling. Help them prepare for their possible future transition. Yet they need guidance, love, support and a bigger understanding. Some kids hit puberty at age 9. A nine year old is a child . So is a 15 year old . 

[Steve W]

10 minutes ago, Viking84 said:

 

Once again, we aren't talking about surgery. We are talking about taking puberty blockers or hormone to stop undesired puberty from permanently destroying a trans person's body. By forcing them to wait until adulthood, you are guaranteeing that every trans person's life will be permanently destroyed. This is a fact. The mind if not developed fully until 25, but that doesn't mean that you should not be able to make any decisions for yourself until that age.

As for the cost, well this should be covered by universal healthcare. It's a medical issue just as much as any other. If you live in a country without universal healthcare, then that is also a problem.

The basic point here is that you don't understand that this is a condition someone is born with and if it is not dealt with before puberty, it guarantees permanent damage. So you are advocating for guaranteed health damage for all trans people with your opinions. And as a non-trans person speaking on behalf of trans people, you are acting like a white person talking about what a black person's rights should be or a man talking about what a woman's rights should be. You should have no say. It's not your business.

I still think counseling before hormones . A kid is a kid. 

[Viking84]

12 minutes ago, Steve W said:

Its a parents right as a parent . A child is a child . I get your anger . Yet unfortunately I disagree and thats ok. Get those kids who are on the verge of suicide into counseling. Help them prepare for their possible future transition. Yet they need guidance, love, support and a bigger understanding. Some kids hit puberty at age 9. A nine year old is a child . So is a 15 year old . 

 

10 minutes ago, Steve W said:

I still think counseling before hormones . A kid is a kid. 

Of course counselling is a part of it. Nobody is just put on hormones without counselling first. That doesn't mean they have to wait until 18 to take puberty blockers or hormones. The point here is that you claim to care about the well-being of children, but you don't. If you really did, then you would care about trans kids but you don't because you think that they should all be forced to go through a traumatising puberty which will permanently damage their bodies and minds.

[The Greatest Show]

2 hours ago, Viking84 said:

Nobody is making anybody do anything. This is about giving children the possibility of a happy future. If trans kids are forced to go through puberty, they are guaranteed a difficult life with lots of health problems. 

And you are definitely full of hatred. Your tone and comments make that pretty obvious. You are clearly a very miserable person. I pity you.

 

 

Im not full of hatred but you are insane.

[Viking84]

28 minutes ago, The Greatest Show said:

Im not full of hatred but you are insane.

Sorry to break it to you, but you are full of hatred. You are also uneducated, ignorant, unintelligent and lack empathy. Not a good combo.

 

[The Greatest Show]

33 minutes ago, Viking84 said:

Sorry to break it to you, but you are full of hatred. You are also uneducated, ignorant, unintelligent and lack empathy. Not a good combo.

 

Im not. You don't listen to anyone and keep repeating the same BS so your opinion means absolutely nothing. Also if you are willong to harm children saying that I lack empathy also means nothing