Trans vs Detrans debate. Interesting watch

[Neydelinska Spearsi]

2 minutes ago, Viking84 said:

Haha, but it's true. People often use the word natural without thinking about what it really means. Anything which occurs in nature is natural. What did you mean when you said cancer isn't natural? It has developed naturally with the evolution of animals.

 

Cancer is not natural at all and it's killing people. Stop defending it!

[Viking84]

7 minutes ago, Neydelinska Spearsi said:

 

Cancer is not natural at all and it's killing people. Stop defending it!

What do you mean that it's not natural? 

I am not saying it's good. Cancer is awful.  But it's natural. It's one of the most commonly-occurring illnesses in nature. The treatments we use to cure cancer are not natural. They are invented by man, so not natural. This is all by definition of the word natural.

[Steve W]

23 hours ago, Viking84 said:

For a trans person it is. Just because something develops naturally, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily good. Cancer develops naturally. Acne develops naturally.

The problem with the trans issue is that those who are anti-trans or anti-trans rights do not understand what it means to be trans. This is not about someone who would prefer to be the other s** and therefore having a s** change. This is about someone being born with a mental gender which does not match their biological, physical s**. This is extremely mentally traumatizing and the longer someone is forced to endure, the worse it is. Imagine if someone forced you to be raised as the opposite s**. Imagine hitting puberty and seeing your body turn into something it's not supposed to be. That's what it's like. Devastating.

This is really the core problem. People don't understand the topic at all. Read more about it. So many people have an uninformed opinion. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes your correct . People are not living the nightmare others are living . Nobody knows the struggles anyone is going through. You have no idea if someone lost a child, was just **** , lost a family member , has cancer , was abused , etc . We all have our own traumas  . Yet unfortunately they do not have to warrant a positive connection towards many others who are struggling .  Trans is  a costly procedure,   its extremely costly and is not something to treat lightly  . Yet who pays ? Honestly ? Many will never afford surgery. Meds are costly . Do tax payers have to be on the hook? Many will not care. Not being mean or inconsiderate. Sorry we are lucky to be alive and the world is not a kind place . Life itself is a gift. Modern medicine has jumped leaps and bounds in a short time span.  People are taught a man marries a women for the most part still. We are programmed at birth. Then someone feels different as they mature . A misfit in a way. A child who identifies as another gender inside . They want to transition early on to prevent a trauma.  They are not who they truly identify as in their true self.  I say go for it again as an adult. As for kids, They want hormones now to stop the process of puberty . I am sorry yet a child’s mind is all over the place. No way in hell would I allow a child to take hormones.  I feel for minors who are trans, yet get them counseling, get them help . Support groups . Today their are options down the road. A child does not belong taking hormones. I am sorry they are hurting . Yet no ******* way. I would be there for them and be there for them down the road. I would support and fight for them all the way without hormones until a proper age. Yes I said age.  No way would I allow a transition to happen as a kid. Yet I would not take it lightly. I would support them being who ever they are . My cousin wanted to be a boy as a child . Fought hard for years and we let her She is all girlie now. Yet for years she was Andy. We all called Amy Andy. Yet for her it was a phase.  A kid gets enough **** from other kids growing up. Its tough growing up. Most parents do not have the monetary funds to aid in a child’s  transition. Being trans is tough as a kid I am sure. Yet sorry life is not fair. Its not . People matter always . Yet society as a whole would disagree unfortunately.  Hate is at a high again. I fight for gay rights. I love people , have empathy, yet also believe differently when it comes to children. Counseling , support , love and patience. Talk to older trans groups and individuals.   The ramifications of hormones on a minor  whose not completely sure who they are could also have other side effects and consequences.  Its not black and white . 

[Viking84]

51 minutes ago, Steve W said:

Yes your correct . People are not living the nightmare others are living . Nobody knows the struggles anyone is going through. You have no idea if someone lost a child, was just **** , lost a family member , has cancer , was abused , etc . We all have our own traumas  . Yet unfortunately they do not have to warrant a positive connection towards many others who are struggling .  Trans is  a costly procedure,   its extremely costly and is not something to treat lightly  . Yet who pays ? Honestly ? Many will never afford surgery. Meds are costly . Do tax payers have to be on the hook? Many will not care. Not being mean or inconsiderate. Sorry we are lucky to be alive and the world is not a kind place . Life itself is a gift. Modern medicine has jumped leaps and bounds in a short time span.  People are taught a man marries a women for the most part still. We are programmed at birth. Then someone feels different as they mature . A misfit in a way. A child who identifies as another gender inside . They want to transition early on to prevent a trauma.  They are not who they truly identify as in their true self.  I say go for it again as an adult. As for kids, They want hormones now to stop the process of puberty . I am sorry yet a child’s mind is all over the place. No way in hell would I allow a child to take hormones.  I feel for minors who are trans, yet get them counseling, get them help . Support groups . Today their are options down the road. A child does not belong taking hormones. I am sorry they are hurting . Yet no ******* way. I would be there for them and be there for them down the road. I would support and fight for them all the way without hormones until a proper age. Yes I said age.  No way would I allow a transition to happen as a kid. Yet I would not take it lightly. I would support them being who ever they are . My cousin wanted to be a boy as a child . Fought hard for years and we let her She is all girlie now. Yet for years she was Andy. We all called Amy Andy. Yet for her it was a phase.  A kid gets enough **** from other kids growing up. Its tough growing up. Most parents do not have the monetary funds to aid in a child’s  transition. Being trans is tough as a kid I am sure. Yet sorry life is not fair. Its not . People matter always . Yet society as a whole would disagree unfortunately.  Hate is at a high again. I fight for gay rights. I love people , have empathy, yet also believe differently when it comes to children. Counseling , support , love and patience. Talk to older trans groups and individuals.   The ramifications of hormones on a minor  whose not completely sure who they are could also have other side effects and consequences.  Its not black and white . 

I understand where you are coming from, but just because a majority feels a certain way, it doesn't make it right. Your opinion also doesn't determine what rights someone should or should not have.

In most European countries, we have universal healthcare. Maybe you don't want your tax money to cover help for trans***uals. Other people don't want their tax money to cover you when you get sick. But you just have to deal with that.  You don't get to have everything your way.

The fact is that transitioning too late destroys lives. Any trans person who transitions after puberty has their life permanently destroyed. This is what you are advocating for and your reasoning is that children need to be protected. That makes no sense. You want to protect children by harming children.

[Steve W]

4 hours ago, Viking84 said:

I understand where you are coming from, but just because a majority feels a certain way, it doesn't make it right. Your opinion also doesn't determine what rights someone should or should not have.

In most European countries, we have universal healthcare. Maybe you don't want your tax money to cover help for trans***uals. Other people don't want their tax money to cover you when you get sick. But you just have to deal with that.  You don't get to have everything your way.

The fact is that transitioning too late destroys lives. Any trans person who transitions after puberty has their life permanently destroyed. This is what you are advocating for and your reasoning is that children need to be protected. That makes no sense. You want to protect children by harming children.

Your passionate towards the plight. I get it . Be well. I get your stance just disagree. Modern technology has made it possible . Yet next  then people will want breast enhancement covered, hair transplants , etc covered for free. America does not have universal coverage, no and its crap coverage with high deductibles for many . Its not the best place to live anymore. Was it ever? My trans friends disagree. I disagree. Yet many like yourself disagree with us.  We are an older generation who thinks this younger generation is overly sensitive. Have i agreed with some of the younger generations narratives, yes and then some I think get a grip and shut up. Not trans.. i want people to be happy. Yet again i think what your stating is also not black and white for many . Thats another topic and a long conversation . I call people by their names as well. I am not calling anyone a they but I say whats your name ? I am not calling anyone a he/they etc . Yet I do not care or stop others. I just say sorry I myself am uncomfortable and its not hate . Yet its ok not to agree and I am not telling you how to think. Your passion is what you perceive as correct . I still think kids are too young for hormones . Thats my stance . The internet has opened up a lot of new sensitive individuals. I tell them call me in 10 years. I lost my vision in one eye. Was not covered by insurance  . I have to manage without one eye ? The world does not care . Dental , Eyes should be covered . So many things in life are unfair . We all are just trying our best to be happy . Sorry i disagree with you but like I said . Its all good . 

Edited April 7 by Steve W

[Viking84]

8 hours ago, Steve W said:

Your passionate towards the plight. I get it . Be well. I get your stance just disagree. Modern technology has made it possible . Yet next  then people will want breast enhancement covered, hair transplants , etc covered for free. America does not have universal coverage, no and its crap coverage with high deductibles for many . Its not the best place to live anymore. Was it ever? My trans friends disagree. I disagree. Yet many like yourself disagree with us.  We are an older generation who thinks this younger generation is overly sensitive. Have i agreed with some of the younger generations narratives, yes and then some I think get a grip and shut up. Not trans.. i want people to be happy. Yet again i think what your stating is also not black and white for many . Thats another topic and a long conversation . I call people by their names as well. I am not calling anyone a they but I say whats your name ? I am not calling anyone a he/they etc . Yet I do not care or stop others. I just say sorry I myself am uncomfortable and its not hate . Yet its ok not to agree and I am not telling you how to think. Your passion is what you perceive as correct . I still think kids are too young for hormones . Thats my stance . The internet has opened up a lot of new sensitive individuals. I tell them call me in 10 years. I lost my vision in one eye. Was not covered by insurance  . I have to manage without one eye ? The world does not care . Dental , Eyes should be covered . So many things in life are unfair . We all are just trying our best to be happy . Sorry i disagree with you but like I said . Its all good . 

There is a difference between necessary medical care and aesthetic medical care. Breast and hair transplants are not necessary as these are purely aesthetic (generally, with some exceptions). s** correction is necessary medical care just as much as any other illness. If you disagree, it's because you still don't understand what being trans really means. You have your opinion, but it's based on your misunderstanding of the topic.

[Steve W]

11 hours ago, Viking84 said:

There is a difference between necessary medical care and aesthetic medical care. Breast and hair transplants are not necessary as these are purely aesthetic (generally, with some exceptions). s** correction is necessary medical care just as much as any other illness. If you disagree, it's because you still don't understand what being trans really means. You have your opinion, but it's based on your misunderstanding of the topic.

Yes we all have an opinion on this. I do not support hormones for children. I am not misunderstanding. Its my concrete opinion. The world is never going to see eye to eye on everything. I wish you the best and its all good . Yet no way in hell would I follow your stance.  Thats my opinion. If I had a trans child. They would be loved , excepted, educated, counseled and supported . Yet , no I would not allow any type of transition until becoming an adult. Thats just me and many others I know agree and I am sure many agree with you . I have talked to several on this topic. More trans friends as well. My trans friends do not agree with you yet they understand . Maybe because we are older. I was told by one , allow a child to be a child and wait  .  They are happy they waited and they are happy they transitioned.   

Attached an article . So many variables that are unknown.  Kids are too young in my opinion and I would wait until adulthood. Your not changing my mind with children. The long term side effects are not know . Osteoporosis is a future possibility starting young taking hormone blockers .  Good read.  Kids go through a roller coaster of emotions. Kids change their minds , want to grow up faster, think they know whats best for them. So many little boys and girls do not want to be little boys and girls at times in their adolescence  . Yet image being also a little boy or girl whose transitioned , started early then decided it was not what they wanted.  They were confused . We could look at many variables.  Some are not confused . Everyone is different. This is a very adult topic. I am for counseling . A lot of it . I wish you well . Have a happy easter ! 
 

When Transgender Kids Transition, Medical Risks are Both Known and Unknown | FRONTLINE

WWW.PBS.ORG

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New medical options are allowing transgender children to start the process of transitioning at younger and younger ages. But doctors tread...

 

Edited April 8 by Steve W

[fays1]

@Viking84 I was talking with a trans person on another forum, and they said this to me:

"trans kids only transition socially (clothes, name, pronouns,etc) and sometimes legally, thats it. a kid cannot medically transition, its medically impossible bc in order to transition your genitals have to be healthy and fully developed, kids also don't have ***** so a mastectomy is also medically impossible, a **** job is also impossible. 

why would a kid need to medically transition with hormones? trans people take HRT(or hormones) to slow the effects of puberty or reverse the effects of puberty when they're an adult, why would a kid need HRT? trans kids don't need HRT bc they haven't gone through puberty yet, a trans kid CANNOT medically transition. Teenagers can start slow doses of hormones, but they're not kids."