Music Reacts To Tragic Mass Shooting At Gay Nightclub In Orlando

[Iced Tea]

These posts are all too long and political for me but this is horrible. 

[David Rose]

8 hours ago, Kiiddy said:

You see this is where you're going wrong. For some reason you keep telling me that I must hate every single Israeli person due to me saying that I don't believe they had the right to live in the homes that did not belong to them, and homes of people who are now dead due to being slaughtered for them to live in. They are two separate things. I cannot generalise an entire race due to that incident. That wouldn't be logical nor fair and I have not done that either. However you wrongly accused me of that and still attempting to say that's how you see it, even though I have clarified to you multiple times that is not what I mean at all. This is why I keep telling you to read and understand what it is I am saying before you respond back to me, because it is extremely frustrating and tiresome to have to keep repeating this to you. Whether you like it or not, what was done to those Palestinians was very serious. If Islamic extremists walked through America or the UK and did that over religious and political views, we would never hear the end of it. So yes, I am right and I will say it again... Israel has no right to stand as a country due to that. It never has and it never will. You do not walk through other people's land (under any circumstances) push them out of their homes and if they refuse, kill them and then expect them and the world to 'understand.' No. That is not understandable by any means. Palestine naturally retaliated. They shouldn't have killed innocent lives and they are wrong for that as well, but Israel started something that should never have started in the first place. Period. The violence was initiated by them, therefore why on earth would I or anyone for that matter see a second point of view when Palestine is the place that lost its home, country, lives and place on the map... for Israel? What's more, is they even went against the UN and continued to further take even more land and lives without caring who got killed or lost their homes for their own gain and purpose. Whether you like that or not, that is purposely killing innocent lives for their own benefit and you need to stop being in denial of that and twisting it as something
else, because it is disrespectful beyond measure to all the lives taken from it. This is where international law was broken over and over again as well. This is also where I have to say you are deeply unfair, unsympathetic and undiplomatic here. I have defended innocent Israeli lives, but you seem to see a point for Israel doing what they did to Palestine, taking their land, starting the violence, breaking international law and taking more land and lives than even the UN and world could stand for, which shocks me because when I try to empathise with these poor souls, if someone were to try and tell them that they *must* understand Israel's point of view in all of this while their children are dead and they're on the streets.... they'd be furious and heartbroken to a degree where you and I don't know of. We don't even say this to the victims of Orlando, so why are we saying it to Palestinians or defenders of Palestinians? I understand blood has been shed on Israeli's side and its wrong, but responsibility and accountability has to be taken here. Would it have happened if Israel initiated all this in the first place? You can't start a war and not take accountability for the consequences. If an Islamic country broke international law as many times as Israel has, they would have been completely obliterated by now and be in a state Iraq is in.

You also keep stating false information about Israel being the only Middle Eastern country that embraces all religion.
I have visited Turkey (before ISIS) and Iran several times throughout my life with both family and friends and they were practically flattered that other religious and foreign people are interested in their countries, and could not have been more welcoming.
When in Iran they even kept giving us free stuff as a 'thank you' for visiting for christ sake. Yet that is never spoken or published in the media, only Islamic extremists and hate is. Not only is your statement 100% untrue AND unfair, but there is a lot of footage that even proves it to be untrue. I even know personal friends that almost lost their lives for being Christian and Muslim when in Israel. So I'm sorry I am not going to disregard or be in denial of footage and my own friend's traumatic experiences to make you feel better about this particular subject. This is another thing you need to be more accepting of as well, because you and the other individual don't seem to like it when this is shared on the forum and will not accept even if there is proof of it right before your eyes. Do you not see how unbelievably bias, unfair and illogical it is to come for Middle Eastern countries that yes have disgusting people in their country as well, but then ignore Israels and instead over-glorify it and suggest no other country is embracing of other people's religion? That is not in anyway a fair nor reasonable or smart debate. Do you not agree with that? If you don't, then I don't think we should continue this because if you can't see the blatant hypocrisy and error there... then there is no hope in seeing eye to eye at all.  

I see exactly where you're coming from, but at the same time your version of the events and especially the reasons why they happen are not in line with what I believe to be true. Israel and it's government are very far from perfect which I conceded already, and the innocent Palestinian lives that have been taken is tragic. I don't discount or disrespect that fact. It's just your oversimplified explanation for all that has happened - "soil, religion" - that I will never agree with you on. And I will never agree with you that Israel doesn't deserve to stand as a country because they are a "terrorist nation that kills innocent people." You're ignoring the endless amounts of good things Israel does and stands for, while at the same time glorifying all the bad things, and saying they are only to be defined by the bad. This is what I was alluding to earlier with my flawed 'one brush stroke to paint a whole picture' analogy. It wasn't that you said all Israel and Israelis are bad, it's that you take one word, terrorist, and you define the entire nation in an all encompassing way and ignore everything else. They did break international law and you're probably right, if an Islamic country did this to the extent that Israel has, they would not get away with it. Part of the reasoning for this is that the UN recognizes that despite these offenses, Israel is progressive as a nation and a proponent of freedom in a way that many middle eastern countries are not. They acknowledge realities beyond just the bloodshed, which I agree is heartbreaking and not at all something that should be taken lightly. You asked, would any bloodshed have occurred if Israel hadn't initiated it in the first place? My answer is it very well may have. We don't have access to underground political and militant intelligence, we don't always know why things happen or the thought process behind it or the perceived threats that DO exist, even before any bloodshed occurs. We can make opinions and jump to our own conclusions, but we don't know everything.

I am right with you on the fact that you can't ask these Palestinians to accept it and simply understand Israel's point of view, I'm not even saying they should. I can very much sympathize with their situation. Their circumstances are immeasurably tragic and the pain and suffering inflicted on them is not something you can ask anyone involved to just give in to. Where I'm not with you, though, is your opinion regarding Israel's status as a nation and your, in my opinion, one dimensional views on the issues. I will never be with you on that. And if that means you can't respect me as a person, then so be it.

As for your last paragraph... I mean, your friends stories are sad if true, but the fact of the matter is that Muslims account for over 20% of the Israeli population. That's not to say hate crimes don't happen, but they are a reality literally everywhere in world. Nobody ever said Israel was a perfect country, I personally have repeated throughout this conversation that its not. But you also can't say "I've seen footage of hate crimes and know people who have told me terrible stories" and use that as propaganda to convince people that Israel isn't a country of love and acceptance. Like I said, you can legitimately say that about ANY COUNTRY, western, eastern and everywhere in between. We've all seen footage of things that are beyond ****** up and heard about bad **** going down everywhere. With regards to Israel, this goes in line with your general attitude towards the entire country, which is to highlight and shove the negativity down people's throats, and use it as the basis of your entire platform of disdain.

I agree with you that it is wrong to ignore Israel's shortcomings and over-glorify it... Just as much as it's wrong to do the opposite. Just because you have had good experiences in other middle eastern countries, doesn't make them unequivocally accepting as nations. And just because you've heard first hand accounts of the opposite in Israel, doesn't make them unequivocally hateful either. You can't take isolated experiences that you have gone through and/or heard about, and then make a generalization on the country's overall culture based just on that. That goes for Israel as well as the other middle eastern countries you alluded to. Israel OVERALL, yes there are exceptions (!!!) is the most religiously open, ******** open, progressive country in the middle east and my opinion on that won't change, I strongly believe in it and so do most people, frankly. If they marginalize and judge other middle eastern countries unfairly because they are ignorant is a separate issue altogether. Please note that never in this conversation have I gone after a specific nation for some backwards people or practices in those countries. I'm defending Israel, but I'm not dragging down other nations in the process. Just because I think Israel is the most progressive country in the middle east doesn't mean I think the rest are explicity bad without exception.

[David Rose]

9 hours ago, Kiiddy said:

@David Rose

In addition I appreciate and accept your apology and I apologise for responding negatively myself as well. 

@Kiiddy I'm positive there are aspects of this debate that you and I will never see eye to eye on. With that said, I stand by my apology and regret the things I said earlier. I both respect and understand whole-heartedly your opinion on the matter, even if I don't see all of it the same way. I'm sure if the subject of Israel/Palestine was off the table, we'd probably be friends.

[fuckofffloverboy]

I still can't read this thread, see their faces, read their stories and what happened to them without my heart breaking into ******* pieces. I have never ever been this heartbroken, and I'm a criminologist and study mass ******* for a living and study, after awhile you begin to feel numb towards this stuff, but NOTHING compares to this hell. 

I'll be thinking about these angels forever 

[queenofhearts]

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 2:21 AM, Godney the Holy Spearit said:

Yeah it also pisses me off of how she never acknowledge Syria, Palestine, Turkey etc 

not saying those countries aren't important, but attacks happen there daily. we've become accustomed to it. Besides, those countries are in the headlines everyday

[Delicious Pork Chops]

Omg guys, I think one of the people was a Britney fan

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10104449462129072&set=pb.5102282.-2207520000.1466571164.&type=3&theater

 

[Menzo]

3 hours ago, - Kyle - said:

Omg guys, I think one of the people was a Britney fan

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10104449462129072&set=pb.5102282.-2207520000.1466571164.&type=3&theater