The Documentaries Debate: Britney calling out 'whistleblowers' makes sense to me now; She's Right.

[Urbanney]

1. This is probably the best formatted and one of the most well-written posts I've seen on Exhale in a while. Props to you for that.
2. You're one of my favorite members here.
3. I don't agree, but you raise good points and appreciate the discussion.

I still think it's important and beneficial for people to speak out and expose the abuse, even if they benefit from doing it or they're doing it at a more comfortable time for them. It still takes bravery and risks and is better than continuing to remain silent. Speaking out later is better than remaining silent forever. The whistleblowers at least did something to help at some point. We're all human, and we make mistakes, like not doing more to help a situation in the moment.

You didn't do this, but I also think it's too easy and unfair for people to say, "Oh, but I would've stood up against team con in their situation!" You never know how you're going to react to a very serious situation like this until you're in that moment, and people have different life experiences that lead them to do different things. These were people who relied on team con for their jobs, and if they spoke out previously, they would've lost their jobs and credibility, been written off as liars or unstable people, been threatened, intimidated or even sued by team con, and would've not been able to help Britney at all, especially if they just got replaced by someone that treated her worse.

Also, there's a very real human phenomenon that you can see on TV shows like What Would You Do? where people often will not help people in very obvious need until others start helping first. I'm not making excuses for people not doing more, I'm just trying to give examples of how many cards team con stacked against people doing anything to help Britney. Some people did try to help, but they got threatened and pushed out by the con, which had way more legal and monetary power than they ever could.

But I do understand Britney's frustration with so many people around her being silent during it and only making more money off exposing the abuse.

[Mr. AmericanDream]

I can def understand the stance more breaking it down like this. I never felt the need to really defend anyone Brit comes for on social media because she has her reasons that none of us can ever truly get off the bat because we are not her. It did always make me wonder and have some confusion at first because of who "Felecia was to Britney" and it's hard for people to shift a perspective of someone "they love". All I know is that I respect Britney & have no problem shifting perspectives about anything & anyone in her camp.

[GirlOnTheMoon]

3 hours ago, x.rox said:

Can I just point out that unlike many people though, AT LEAST @Jordan Miller can say he tried to raise awareness or do something about it despite facing potential adversity. That’s the difference. Jordan is one of the very few who actually stood up to the conservatorship. He can say: I spoke up when it mattered. I went to bat, yes I had to issue an apology and yes I may have had to tone it down in the face of potential legal action, but the good man actually did SOMETHING. 
 

Also, you can report things anonymously. You can go to the NYT, an investigative journalist like Liz Day as an insider and because of the 1st Amendment and journalistic privileges, the identity of a whistleblower is protected. So when people who KNEW something was wrong and had first hand knowledge didn’t go through any, not one possible channel to bring awareness to Britney’s situation despite the fact their identity would be protected, the whole “their careers would end” argument falls apart. 

A few did report it initially and tried to help and Team Con made them into villains…Even Britney sent a few anonymous letters to the press and and no one believed it either…A few of her voicemails leaked and Team Con only used them against her. People that did speak out were threatened with their lives and backed off. With this precedence in place (including what happened with Jordan) I can’t blame people being quiet after them…

Even right before the documentaries, Team Con tried the same tactics with the guy from Abs*lute Britney (I forgot his name sorry) and the other fan from overseas that had a website exposing Loucifer. They were both threatened and sued and ultimately had to stop talking about the conservatorship and them and were only able to post news articles without commenting on them. The difference is that the press was finally on Britney’s side due to public pressure and Free Britney and they had to stop using the same tactics…So ultimately I do believe the documentaries helped Britney’s case - this doesn’t mean she doesn’t have the right to despise them. I can understand why she hates them, but it’s not a black and white situation. A lot of people where threatened and almost everyone that interacted with her  were made to sign NDAs and if they broke them, they were publicly scrutinized and Team Con would turn the media and the world against them, like for example, David Lucado…He didn’t buy the whole Britney is crazy scheme, he tried to set her free and what did Team Con did? Made up a lie that he cheated on Britney with a ******** and Jamie Spears bought the video of his daughter’s boyfriend ******* another woman so Britney didn’t have to watch it… Maybe a dumb rumor to some, but if I remember correctly, he was a pastor or something like that, they completely damaged his reputation for a long time…During the documentaries he also came out to speak highly positive of her… So, a lot of people did try to intervene in whatever way they could, but none were going to risk their lives for the sake of saving Britney when the most likely outcome was to be unjustly canceled by Team Con, the press and at one point, even Britney’s fanbase. 

[Oprah Winfrey.]

I feel like Trish truly is sorry for never speaking up

[x.rox]

5 hours ago, GirlOnTheMoon said:

A few did report it initially and tried to help and Team Con made them into villains…Even Britney sent a few anonymous letters to the press and and no one believed it either…A few of her voicemails leaked and Team Con only used them against her. People that did speak out were threatened with their lives and backed off. With this precedence in place (including what happened with Jordan) I can’t blame people being quiet after them…

Even right before the documentaries, Team Con tried the same tactics with the guy from Abs*lute Britney (I forgot his name sorry) and the other fan from overseas that had a website exposing Loucifer. They were both threatened and sued and ultimately had to stop talking about the conservatorship and them and were only able to post news articles without commenting on them. The difference is that the press was finally on Britney’s side due to public pressure and Free Britney and they had to stop using the same tactics…So ultimately I do believe the documentaries helped Britney’s case - this doesn’t mean she doesn’t have the right to despise them. I can understand why she hates them, but it’s not a black and white situation. A lot of people where threatened and almost everyone that interacted with her  were made to sign NDAs and if they broke them, they were publicly scrutinized and Team Con would turn the media and the world against them, like for example, David Lucado…He didn’t buy the whole Britney is crazy scheme, he tried to set her free and what did Team Con did? Made up a lie that he cheated on Britney with a ******** and Jamie Spears bought the video of his daughter’s boyfriend ******* another woman so Britney didn’t have to watch it… Maybe a dumb rumor to some, but if I remember correctly, he was a pastor or something like that, they completely damaged his reputation for a long time…During the documentaries he also came out to speak highly positive of her… So, a lot of people did try to intervene in whatever way they could, but none were going to risk their lives for the sake of saving Britney when the most likely outcome was to be unjustly canceled by Team Con, the press and at one point, even Britney’s fanbase. 

Well articulated point touché !! I do remember a lot of what you’re speaking of. I remember a fan getting sued. That was big news in the fan base. It’s crazy to think just how powerful they were. 

[x.rox]

8 hours ago, Urbanney said:

1. This is probably the best formatted and one of the most well-written posts I've seen on Exhale in a while. Props to you for that.
2. You're one of my favorite members here.
3. I don't agree, but you raise good points and appreciate the discussion.

I still think it's important and beneficial for people to speak out and expose the abuse, even if they benefit from doing it or they're doing it at a more comfortable time for them. It still takes bravery and risks and is better than continuing to remain silent. Speaking out later is better than remaining silent forever. The whistleblowers at least did something to help at some point. We're all human, and we make mistakes, like not doing more to help a situation in the moment.

You didn't do this, but I also think it's too easy and unfair for people to say, "Oh, but I would've stood up against team con in their situation!" You never know how you're going to react to a very serious situation like this until you're in that moment, and people have different life experiences that lead them to do different things. These were people who relied on team con for their jobs, and if they spoke out previously, they would've lost their jobs and credibility, been written off as liars or unstable people, been threatened, intimidated or even sued by team con, and would've not been able to help Britney at all, especially if they just got replaced by someone that treated her worse.

Also, there's a very real human phenomenon that you can see on TV shows like What Would You Do? where people often will not help people in very obvious need until others start helping first. I'm not making excuses for people not doing more, I'm just trying to give examples of how many cards team con stacked against people doing anything to help Britney. Some people did try to help, but they got threatened and pushed out by the con, which had way more legal and monetary power than they ever could.

But I do understand Britney's frustration with so many people around her being silent during it and only making more money off exposing the abuse.

 

I like your honesty and well written position and I think everything you said is valid. 😊 I agree with a lot of what you wrote.

Something this thread has surprised me with is how deep everyone has been in their responses. We’ve all written very detailed paragraphs about our points of view and everyone done so, so respectively. It’s nice to talk this way with other fans. It feels like we should all be at coffee shop sipping coffee discussing this stuff! Haha. Imagine a weekly coffee date with the gurls to just talk Britney stuff! 
 

BTW: Re: speaking out later is better than never. 100%. 
 

I didn’t necessarily want to villainize these folks, I suppose I did but I had a passionate moment haha. I just stopped myself for a moment because I normally try to remain very objective (as objective as I can) but in doing so I sometimes feel disconnected to Britney because I’m not “feeling” where she is coming from. With my rant here, for a moment I just decided to put myself in her shoes for once and try and come at it all from exactly her angle (or as close as I could try since I’m not her and will never TRULY know her feelings deep down). I remember in criminology we learned a lot about bystander apathy. People not wanting to become entangled in a situation and hoping/expecting someone else will step in (which in most cases no one does because everyone is thinking the exact same way). I’m familiar with What Would You Do?. It’s an unfortunate fact of life that the majority of people do stay silent. 
 

The closest situation I’ve encountered to a What Would You Do moment was a disturbed guy on a passenger train kept calling an elderly woman (like 65+) a c unt and kept getting closer to her and she was upset and people pulled out their phones to record but no one was saying anything so I pushed the emergency button on the train for police and yelled down the man and told him to stop. I didn’t do it for recognition but let me tell you when you stand up for someone in a situation like that and sit back down and a bunch of people turn to you and say thank you it’s the best feeling in the whole world. I was bullied a lot though and no one stuck up for me so I feel very passionate about taking action even if it’s very uncomfortable. But I understand that most would consider things like “what if they have a knife or gun” etc etc. Britney’s situation is so complex though because if lawyers send you injunctions to cease and desist and you don’t and you’re sued and next bankruptcy and homelessness maybe that’s a line I wouldn’t cross. I think it would be soul crushing though, to feel that helpless. I don’t envy anyone involved that’s for sure.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

[Urbanney]

8 hours ago, x.rox said:

 

I like your honesty and well written position and I think everything you said is valid. 😊 I agree with a lot of what you wrote.

Something this thread has surprised me with is how deep everyone has been in their responses. We’ve all written very detailed paragraphs about our points of view and everyone done so, so respectively. It’s nice to talk this way with other fans. It feels like we should all be at coffee shop sipping coffee discussing this stuff! Haha. Imagine a weekly coffee date with the gurls to just talk Britney stuff! 
 

BTW: Re: speaking out later is better than never. 100%. 
 

I didn’t necessarily want to villainize these folks, I suppose I did but I had a passionate moment haha. I just stopped myself for a moment because I normally try to remain very objective (as objective as I can) but in doing so I sometimes feel disconnected to Britney because I’m not “feeling” where she is coming from. With my rant here, for a moment I just decided to put myself in her shoes for once and try and come at it all from exactly her angle (or as close as I could try since I’m not her and will never TRULY know her feelings deep down). I remember in criminology we learned a lot about bystander apathy. People not wanting to become entangled in a situation and hoping/expecting someone else will step in (which in most cases no one does because everyone is thinking the exact same way). I’m familiar with What Would You Do?. It’s an unfortunate fact of life that the majority of people do stay silent. 
 

The closest situation I’ve encountered to a What Would You Do moment was a disturbed guy on a passenger train kept calling an elderly woman (like 65+) a c unt and kept getting closer to her and she was upset and people pulled out their phones to record but no one was saying anything so I pushed the emergency button on the train for police and yelled down the man and told him to stop. I didn’t do it for recognition but let me tell you when you stand up for someone in a situation like that and sit back down and a bunch of people turn to you and say thank you it’s the best feeling in the whole world. I was bullied a lot though and no one stuck up for me so I feel very passionate about taking action even if it’s very uncomfortable. But I understand that most would consider things like “what if they have a knife or gun” etc etc. Britney’s situation is so complex though because if lawyers send you injunctions to cease and desist and you don’t and you’re sued and next bankruptcy and homelessness maybe that’s a line I wouldn’t cross. I think it would be soul crushing though, to feel that helpless. I don’t envy anyone involved that’s for sure.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Agreed. A coffee shop chat about Britney would be amazing, though Britney would probably think we were crazy.

I didn't think you were villainizing them. I can see you were just trying to look at it from Britney's perspective, which I think was helpful to think about it from that angle. Yes! Bystander apathy is what I was trying to think of. Thanks for reminding me.

That's so impressive that you had the bravery to stand up for the woman and do something about it. Not everyone would do that, as you witnessed, or some would be too afraid or unsure of what to do about it, like you mentioned. I'm sure that woman appreciated you doing something so much though. Agreed 100% on Britney's situation being super complex. You hit the nail on the head.

[BritBritSpearsLove]

I think people are demanding too much from people like Tish. She was her wardrobe stylist, not her BFF who Britney confined everything on. As Tish herself said, many times Britney would not open up. 

It's not like team con were performing lab experiments in plain sight on Britney, I'm sure everything is much more nuanced. 

Let's not forget that even fans knew about the cship, but didn't think much of it / believed she needed it / was for her own good. 

[BrittonJeanSpears]

I see both sides of it, honestly. I see how someone would be opportunistic and try to absolve themselves of their inactivity, but I also see how someone who was truly and genuinely powerless to do anything would seize this opportunity to speak up for her.

And both things can be true at once; people like Tish and Fe may have THOUGHT they were powerless to do anything, and then spoke up once they saw that Team Con had lost their power, while still being guilty of standing by.

[joanhs]

She is right

And Felisia and Tish is right.
Tish wrote on facebook she expected Britney to feel that way and that its completly okay. I think we all would feel the same way.
But imagine being told every day your boss loves their job, but you kinda feel they dont, and suddenly one day you are fired, not called again, and you are being told everything was a lie. You get a call from a documentarist who says "this documentary is going to happen one way or another, and we want both sides. We want someone to confirm this feeling that this happened" - So if yoou say no to the interview, no one can confirm how horriwble it actually was now you think about it.

[Applejack]

I get both sides. Britney for feeling betrayed, Fe and Tish and Alex for being scared. It's a complex situation.

 

Thankfully Tish, Fe and Alex get this. Britney was picked apart like a plaything