The Documentaries Debate: Britney calling out 'whistleblowers' makes sense to me now; She's Right.

[x.rox]

I didn't understand what she was complaining about with regards to her Stylist Tish, Fe and others who spoke out in the documentaries. I was actually critical of her cynicism and am one of the first who will defend the documentaries. Now, I do believe the documentaries made a sizeable impact in spreading the word to the general public. But, today, I have some tats with it. 

ALL those who spoke up in the documentaries did so when they were no longer making BANK off Britney. 

Think about it. Why did they not speak up from the get-go? As Liz Day put it in the documentary "[...] everyone stood to make a cut". And those who were interviewed in the documentary... they came out of the wood-work at a very convenient time. Britney had spoken out, Free Britney movement in full swing, and truths are coming forward about the abuse. Those who set up the CON were pointing the fingers at each other, scrambling. But so too were all these individuals in the NYT documentaries. When it likely mattered most to ensure they redeemed their character publicly and save face and to control the narrative that they were helpless bystanders they went on record stating how helpless they were and how wrong they felt the conservatorship was. SO CONVENIENT it seems that now it doesn't seem altruistic at all to me. And so, I think I finally get where some of Britney's anger stems from with regards to these documentaries. 

I often felt and would vocalize that Britney's anger is misplaced, she is going after the wrong people. But, in re-framing my perspective of those who "spoke out", when you take the timing into consideration and the fact these people made a LOT of money by simply being helpless bystanders, it just doesn't pass the smell test to me anymore. Someone once said to me, and it now comes to mind, when someone is being bullied, harassed, assaulted / harmed and you are merely a bystander watching on and not intervening, YOU are as guilty as the perpetrator, YOU are part of the problem. Now, that is only an opinion. But being a gay kid in school I remember being bullied relentlessly. And I remember being beaten up and other kids would encircle the person hurting me and myself and laugh or stand there emotionless. And it wouldn't matter what excuse any one of those kids would later say they had for not intervening or getting help for me, the fact they did NOTHING when it mattered destroyed me and I felt they were no different than the kids picking on me. They were part of the problem. They ENABLED the abuse and did nothing to stop it. I also was raised in a fairly abusive home. When it comes to mind, I resent all the adults, all the teachers all the neighbours who knew something wasn't right going on, yet did nothing to prevent that abuse. They didn't speak up. They didn't report the abuse when they heard it happen or saw it first hand. 

Now I understand Britney more. Many of you have probably already come to this conclusion too, but for those of us like myself who are a little slower, I hope this epiphany I've had may also make a light-bulb go off for others too. 

Agreeing to being part of the documentary solidified for most, that these players were "saviours", "heroes" and "admirable". It absolved them of their guilt and their part to play. It absolved them of the nasty feeling it must be to have, being that they profited from the conservatorship. When it was no longer profitable, when shiz hit the fan, they had to come forward. Their calculated strategy worked. No matter Britney's insistence these people are as low as her father, they were painted in such a redeeming light that even her most staunch fans like myself gave our heads a shake and doubted Britney. I don't doubt her anymore. 

The information these people brought forward was useful. Their motivations may not be as heroic as many of us thought. 

 

What do you think? Was this already what you considered to be the case or have you too been forgiving of these individuals based on their appearance in the documentaries? 
 

EDIT: Some have raised the possibility their careers would be over and they’d be sued or threatened with legal action had they spoken out earlier. Let’s clear this up: the first amendment of the United States protects free speech and it also protects journalists / the free press. When someone brings vital information of wrongdoing on the condition of anonymity, journalistic privilege prevails and their identities are protected. This is a long-standing privilege the free press has long held in order to protect whistleblowers so that anything and anyone can be held to account through investigative journalism reporting. So the whole idea that they would have lost their livelihoods falls apart when you take this into consideration. Food for thought!

[JessicaS89]

This is a very interesting take on this. I’m glad you shared it. Now if you excuse me I have some serious thinking to do. 

[easy]

thank you for sharing! it's great when people can look at a different perspective, there's no growth in surrounding yourself with only like minded individuals. i happen to always been of the belief the docs didn't do anything to free her, and that those that participated only did so after the coast was clear so to speak. britney freed herself, and owes no loyalty to those exploitive docs or the people that participated. no matter how "good" they believed their intentions were. 

[vzlafan]

Whoah! its a really good opinion but when you work in the entertainment industry you need to have consider some things.

1. After Tish & Felicia talk even when they saw horrible things, is possible they could never by considered to work again in the entertainment business because they broken their DNA's (Disclossure agreements)  and this part of DNA'S is very important because in that world a lot of things happen in hotels, secret parties, backstage, and you can't be spreading tea.  Even when they try to help britney, they are not anymore in britney's payroll. 

2. They could contact FBI or something, but maybe could be in JAIL right now or homeless , because All the team Com got important contacts, money, at the end of the day the media just sells to sell to the best bidder and not always looking for the truth, just to earn money, So, if tish or fee would bring out information for example in glory days, what do u think could happen?? maybe get fired, or in jail, or broke for dimation demands. and when you are in their positions do u think, BUT why don't jason speaks?or any boyfriend? or Sam,? or the cousin? its a really hard desition.

3. And MY PERSONAL OPINION

 

about the Documentaries make good or make right, if britney would come clean before the documentaries i won't tell why  would it happen, because media press , Tish & fee talks, the docus, the fans, MAKE the 75% of the work for freeing her, sorry but right now in this corrupt world even with FOR THE RECORD, IAM BRITNEY JEAN, HER INSTAGRAM POST called more than US, The docus and the media press, so Britney passed for hard situations, being medicated, forced and alienated for 13 years of course got consequences, but when she heals , she gonna have another perspective.

 

[jordeezy river red]

I fully agree.

[x.rox]

40 minutes ago, vzlafan said:

Whoah! its a really good opinion but when you work in the entertainment industry you need to have consider some things.

1. After Tish & Felicia talk even when they saw horrible things, is possible they could never by considered to work again in the entertainment business because they broken their DNA's (Disclossure agreements)  and this part of DNA'S is very important because in that world a lot of things happen in hotels, secret parties, backstage, and you can't be spreading tea.  Even when they try to help britney, they are not anymore in britney's payroll. 

2. They could contact FBI or something, but maybe could be in JAIL right now or homeless , because All the team Com got important contacts, money, at the end of the day the media just sells to sell to the best bidder and not always looking for the truth, just to earn money, So, if tish or fee would bring out information for example in glory days, what do u think could happen?? maybe get fired, or in jail, or broke for dimation demands. and when you are in their positions do u think, BUT why don't jason speaks?or any boyfriend? or Sam,? or the cousin? its a really hard desition.

3. And MY PERSONAL OPINION

 

about the Documentaries make good or make right, if britney would come clean before the documentaries i won't tell why  would it happen, because media press , Tish & fee talks, the docus, the fans, MAKE the 75% of the work for freeing her, sorry but right now in this corrupt world even with FOR THE RECORD, IAM BRITNEY JEAN, HER INSTAGRAM POST called more than US, The docus and the media press, so Britney passed for hard situations, being medicated, forced and alienated for 13 years of course got consequences, but when she heals , she gonna have another perspective.

 

I really don’t think we should be permissive of not doing what’s right when it matters simply because it’s hard to do so. Albus Dumbledore once said “We must all face the choice between what is right and what is easy”. Yes, he’s a fictional character, but I’ve always thought that quote is so true. Maybe normalizing taking the easy way out to spare us the misfortune that comes with doing the RIGHT thing, is part of a greater societal problem we have in the world right now. 
 

Regardless of NDA’s signed, if someone is being trafficked, abused and harmed: this is NOT okay and it takes a courageous person of good character to step up and be a true “whistleblower”. It can be life altering. But I shudder to think what world we could be living in if absolutely everyone thought of only themselves and their good fortunes at the expense and destruction of others. It is demonstrated over and over that this is a common theme in humanity. But let’s call a spade a spade: admitting you were a bystander after 13 years should NOT absolve you of guilt. And there’s a difference between being completely “helpless” (which is the characterization they ran with in the documentaries) and conscientiously choosing not to seek out viable options to report abuse, any options that were on the table, to ignore those because “stirring the pot” might implicate you in some way. I mean, the irony being, when you keep your mouth shut for over a decade only to admit later there was abuses is pretty damning of implicit guilt in being part of the problem, privy to the abuse. 
 

You’re running with their narrative which is exactly what they wanted for themselves: they could lose work. They could be sued. Poor them poor them… FOR REAL? POOR BRITNEY! 

Let’s reframe this: A supervisor in a workplace se.xually assaults a junior female staff member repeatedly. Other junior staff members see it happen but choose not to speak up because they don’t want to stir the pot nor be involved. Said junior female staffer commits suicide. Then said other staff members at an investigation disclose they were privy to the abuse or knew something was going wrong, but they were worried about their career prospects. You feel bad for them? Knowing they could have prevented the abuse and saved someone from lifelong trauma or suicide due to their being abused? 
 

I acknowledged the documentaries brought some useful information to the table, especially in illuminating the truth for the general public. But these individuals who only chose to come forward after the abused person spoke out are NOT above scrutiny simply because they did what they should have done in the first place. It warrants valid criticism. 

I appreciate where you are coming from but I believe you came from the exact angle they wanted people to see from: their side. They were helpless bystanders. They felt damned if they did and damned if they didn’t. The sad thing is, they didn’t even try. And isn’t it telling, the absence of acknowledging they ever did try when they did the documentary; because they didn’t or they would have said so.

Reframing the NETFLIX doc: those involved ACTUALLY tried to help Britney get a lawyer of her choosing. They actually went to bat with the handlers of the conservatorship at their own peril. THAT is courageous. That is heroic. And they did not get the recognition for their actions near as much if at all in contrast with those who participated in the NYT documentary who only came forward after 13 years. 
 

Come on.

 

[MissSpearsSaysSo]

I think Britney has been totally burned by the entire entertainment industry and she’s right to feel that she can’t trust anyone, even those closest to her. She detests that people speak for and over her, and that they obviously didn’t try to help her situation more directly / in private. I don’t blame her at all.
Justice for Britney. 

[jordeezy river red]

16 minutes ago, x.rox said:

I really don’t think we should be permissive of not doing what’s right when it matters simply because it’s hard to do so. Albus Dumbledore once said “We must all face the choice between what is right and what is easy”. Yes, he’s a fictional character, but I’ve always thought that quote is so true. Maybe normalizing taking the easy way out to spare us the misfortune that comes with doing the RIGHT thing, is part of a greater societal problem we have in the world right now. 
 

Regardless of NDA’s signed, if someone is being trafficked, abused and harmed: this is NOT okay and it takes a courageous person of good character to step up and be a true “whistleblower”. It can be life altering. But I shudder to think what world we could be living in if absolutely everyone thought of only themselves and their good fortunes at the expense and destruction of others. It is demonstrated over and over that this is a common theme in humanity. But let’s call a spade a spade: admitting you were a bystander after 13 years should NOT absolve you of guilt. And there’s a difference between being completely “helpless” (which is the characterization they ran with in the documentaries) and conscientiously choosing not to seek out viable options to report abuse, any options that were on the table, to ignore those because “stirring the pot” might implicate you in some way. I mean, the irony being, when you keep your mouth shut for over a decade only to admit later there was abuses is pretty damning of implicit guilt in being part of the problem, privy to the abuse. 
 

You’re running with their narrative which is exactly what they wanted for themselves: they could lose work. They could be sued. Poor them poor them… FOR REAL? POOR BRITNEY! 

Let’s reframe this: A supervisor in a workplace se.xually assaults a junior female staff member repeatedly. Other junior staff members see it happen but choose not to speak up because they don’t want to stir the pot nor be involved. Said junior female staffer commits suicide. Then said other staff members at an investigation disclose they were privy to the abuse or knew something was going wrong, but they were worried about their career prospects. You feel bad for them? Knowing they could have prevented the abuse and saved someone from lifelong trauma or suicide due to their being abused? 
 

I acknowledged the documentaries brought some useful information to the table, especially in illuminating the truth for the general public. But these individuals who only chose to come forward after the abused person spoke out are NOT above scrutiny simply because they did what they should have done in the first place. It warrants valid criticism. 

I appreciate where you are coming from but I believe you came from the exact angle they wanted people to see from: their side. They were helpless bystanders. They felt damned if they did and damned if they didn’t. The sad thing is, they didn’t even try. And isn’t it telling, the absence of acknowledging they ever did try when they did the documentary; because they didn’t or they would have said so.

Reframing the NETFLIX doc: those involved ACTUALLY tried to help Britney get a lawyer of her choosing. They actually went to bat with the handlers of the conservatorship at their own peril. THAT is courageous. That is heroic. And they did not get the recognition for their actions near as much if at all in contrast with those who participated in the NYT documentary who only came forward after 13 years. 
 

Come on.

 

Whistle-blowers have the burden of showing proof or else they will end up being treated like Jason Alexander. So..

I can understand why they were scared to speak alone. 

[x.rox]

Just now, jordeezy said:

Whistle-blower have the burden of showing proof or else they will end up being treated like Jason Alexander. So..

I can understand why they were scared to speak alone. 

They may get a pass from us fans since we can empathize in that regard to a degree but I think I can appreciate more now where Britney is coming from. And I just don’t blame her.

[jordeezy river red]

Just now, x.rox said:

They may get a pass from us fans since we can empathize in that regard to a degree but I think I can appreciate more now where Britney is coming from. And I just don’t blame her.

Yeah..

It's all so tricky since the courts went along with it all for so long. Truly a horrible situation. I work in Healthcare so I can understand the nuance on both sides of the argument. 

[gar]

5 hours ago, vzlafan said:

Non Disclosure agreements

 

aren't valid if crimes have been committed.

[I Can Bang]

That's what I always say too...

But for some reason some people like to defend (especially) Felicia, as if they're defending their mothers  And I've talked to some weird and delusional people (not here) saying: But that's impossible, Fe has always been nice, even when I met her in Vegas 

I mean, seriously??? She got PAID to work in Vegas, being nice towards everyone was the bare minimum she had to do 

Also, imagine if you're invited to talk about a certain topic for a documentary but when you get there you don't help at all cause you don't wanna talk about it...  You're afraid? Ok, understandable, but then what are you doing there? why accepting if you know that you have nothing to say against the people that hurt her??? According to Britney, Fe even lied about that story that she told where apparentely Britney gave money to random people for Christmas, if I'm not mistaken... So basically her presence in the documentary was literally unnecessary if not to promote herself as the "former assistant" (And who knows if she got paid to appear, I wouldn't be surprised tbh) no wonder Britney felt betrayed! 

[MintChocoLatte]

Great points, OP. I think the reality of things is, most often people aren’t ready to potentially sacrifice their livelihood, their career and opportunities to save someone else. For most that threat will be a dealbreaker, something that makes them think “There was nothing I could do”. Which is objectively wrong. There’s always something someone can do to help someone else. But most of the time, most of  us aren’t willing to make these sacrifices so selflessly. I can 100% understand Britney’s anger. 

[MonaLisa613]

I just don’t get why fans have to make such a huge deal about this ****, Britney is allowed to feel the way she feels regarding shows made about HER life and that have included people that are/were in HER life. Her being the key word, not a single one of us is her, not a single one of us is personally involved in her life, not a single one of us is behind the scenes in her life. Britney’s feelings about this stuff could be for reasons that we are not in the position to have knowledge of due to us being outsiders very far on the outside peeking in.

Those fans who insist on questioning or debating Britney’s thoughts and feelings on stuff having to do with HER life are just stupid and the fact that there are fans who think they know more about Britney’s life than Britney does is just psychotic to me.

 

 

[unusualyouforever]

where the logic falls apart is that her husband and her best friend were also aware of what was going on and they didn’t do anything either. *maybe* cade was the one who connected her with rosengart which was two years after the forced stay in the facility. didn’t cade literally say he was protecting his career? what makes him different from anyone else in her life? and sam didn’t say a peep until free britney was mainstream. in part due to the documentaries. what did paris and drew do for her? i completely understand that she feels like certain people abandoned her and then popped up in a doc talking about her (because team con manipulated the situation and isolated her). but the sad situation is that one of the key drivers of the conservatorship lasting as long as it did is because everyone around her was complicit.

[bk2021]

Even Jordan Miller got sued by Jamie in the early days of the CON. Imagine being 100x closer to Britney with her money funding Jamie's legal team. I truly do not think Felicia and Tish are guilty here. Felicia loves Britney and you can see that in the years of footage of them together. Several of us met Fe during the circus tour when she stood out in the arena hallways to help people navigate. Britney's reality is that everyone abandoned her. But she might not realize how ruthless Jamie was to everyone. Idk.

[Arckangel]

I am not doubting the honesty of those people. All of a sudden Felicia and Tish are heartless opportunists? I don’t think so. 

As mentioned by @bk2021, even Jordan Miller got threatened w/ a lawsuit by Jamie Spears for “undermining the conservatorship.” That was complete bullocks as Jordan did nothing illegal or improper at all but give his opinion, and he made no false statements, no dramatic accusations, etc. Jamie Spears and his lawyer even came for song lyrics posted on BreatheHeavy and the very use of Britney's name… And years later, Lou Taylor came for Jordan, and he was forced to issue an apology. Even Iggy Azalea was threatened by Jamie just before a performance and forced to sign an NDA. And Britney was threatened into accepting to do the Piece of Me Tour, and you know what happened when she pulled the plug on Domination, even though she was told it was okay. 

 

Maybe Fe, Tish and others (incl. Jamie Lynn) could have spoken up, done something drastic to help free Britney, but the level of corruption was very high!

[x.rox]

3 hours ago, Persona said:

Great points, OP. I think the reality of things is, most often people aren’t ready to potentially sacrifice their livelihood, their career and opportunities to save someone else. For most that threat will be a dealbreaker, something that makes them think “There was nothing I could do”. Which is objectively wrong. There’s always something someone can do to help someone else. But most of the time, most of  us aren’t willing to make these sacrifices so selflessly. I can 100% understand Britney’s anger. 

[GirlOnTheMoon]

2 hours ago, bk2021 said:

Even Jordan Miller got sued by Jamie in the early days of the CON. Imagine being 100x closer to Britney with her money funding Jamie's legal team. I truly do not think Felicia and Tish are guilty here. Felicia loves Britney and you can see that in the years of footage of them together. Several of us met Fe during the circus tour when she stood out in the arena hallways to help people navigate. Britney's reality is that everyone abandoned her. But she might not realize how ruthless Jamie was to everyone. Idk.

Exactly. I don’t disagree with OP and his point of view is one I ideally would agree, however, realistically speaking… No one is going to put their lives in danger for the possibility of saving another person, let alone, someone surrounded by people with a lot of power to decide to ruin your life and prevent you from ever working again. Jordan tried to and get got cornered with a lawsuit which ultimately made him back off… And fans here expect a stylist to go against Team Con lol… it’s completely unrealistic.
 

Fans here saying they would have done something probably are not thinking of the consequences: jobless, no money to pay loans, school for kids, insurance, rent or mortgage, medical bills, car payments…Essentially getting in debt and fighting for your life in court against one the biggest and most powerful cons in the present world. 
 

The only one I do see an issue with and that IMO does have a certain level of responsibility is Felicia. She’s been friends of the family since forever. She knew first hand things that other employees didn’t have access too and yet she continued supporting Lynne and to this day, she still does. 
 

I admire people here saying they would have fight will all they have for Britney, but if I’m honest, I wouldn’t have… I would have quit maybe, but I wouldn’t have put my livelihood on the line for her. I love Britney, but I don’t have the luxury of fighting against Team Con in court.

[x.rox]

5 minutes ago, GirlOnTheMoon said:

Exactly. I don’t disagree with OP and his point of view is one I ideally would agree, however, realistically speaking… No one is going to put their lives in danger for the possibility of saving another person, let alone, someone surrounded by people with a lot of power to decide to ruin your life and prevent you from ever working again. Jordan tried to and get got cornered with a lawsuit which ultimately made him back off… And fans here expect a stylist to go against Team Con lol… it’s completely unrealistic.
 

Fans here saying they would have done something probably are not thinking of the consequences: jobless, no money to pay loans, school for kids, insurance, rent or mortgage, medical bills, car payments…Essentially getting in debt and fighting for your life in court against one the biggest and most powerful cons in the present world. 
 

The only one I do see an issue with and that IMO does have a certain level of responsibility is Felicia. She’s been friends of the family since forever. She knew first hand things that other employees didn’t have access too and yet she continued supporting Lynne and to this day, she still does. 
 

I admire people here saying they would have fight will all they have for Britney, but if I’m honest, I wouldn’t have… I would have quit maybe, but I wouldn’t have put my livelihood on the line for her. I love Britney, but I don’t have the luxury of fighting against Team Con in court.

Can I just point out that unlike many people though, AT LEAST @Jordan Miller can say he tried to raise awareness or do something about it despite facing potential adversity. That’s the difference. Jordan is one of the very few who actually stood up to the conservatorship. He can say: I spoke up when it mattered. I went to bat, yes I had to issue an apology and yes I may have had to tone it down in the face of potential legal action, but the good man actually did SOMETHING. 
 

Also, you can report things anonymously. You can go to the NYT, an investigative journalist like Liz Day as an insider and because of the 1st Amendment and journalistic privileges, the identity of a whistleblower is protected. So when people who KNEW something was wrong and had first hand knowledge didn’t go through any, not one possible channel to bring awareness to Britney’s situation despite the fact their identity would be protected, the whole “their careers would end” argument falls apart.