Britney’s husband Sam Asghari speaks for people of Iran in their fight for freedom

[Willson Saints]

46 minutes ago, do the thing said:

Just like literally the entire planet until very recently (like, 40 years ago). Women jailed in they'd wear pants in France, segregation in the US, s0d0my laws literally almost everywhere (including in Norway until the 70s-80s), blabla. They're just like the whole world has always been until very recently. It might take some additional time for some change according to the country you're talking about. You're targeting laws, which are different from culture (architecture, language, literature, philosophy, food, cities, etc.). Do you consider Ancient Greece to be a sh**h*le? Because women had no rights, and weren't even considered as citizens (they were below men in every single aspect, and slightly above slave; they had less rights than ex-slaves though). Do you consider 50s-US as a sh**h*le? Segregation + 0 rights for gays + limited rights for women. Separate these things carefully.

 

Exactly. Most of these countries are dictatorships. They'll only be able to fight for gay rights when they'd... get the freedom to fight for something. Some countries are achieving it (Tunisia, Lebanon, Morocco). But at the moment for most it's not their priority. You can hide being gay pretty well, especially in countries with gender-segregation, you can't hide being a woman or a minority. 

Also, Iran is the only country in the world that applies death penalty for gays. Saudi Arabia stopped doing that a long time ago; in Mauritania, you can be sentenced up to 3 years in jail max and even then it's generally if you're caught up doing it in public. Most don't care because jail-space isn't extensible and there's more urgent matters, and also because they have partnerships with UNO so they're being discreet about it. Iran is already blacklisted and backed up by Russia so they don't mind. 

Yes, the West (mainly the US and the UK) and Russia played a pretty big part regarding the rise of religious extremism in the Middle East throughout the last century. They're aren't the main reason, but a significant factor.

- After Ottoman's defeat in WWI, the British helped the riots occurring in the regions of the Middle East which ended up in an implosion of the Empire with different individual states. Long story short: just like Germany huge tax-payments & sanctions (which indirectly led to WWII), the Ottoman Empire had to cede all of these countries (with the exception of Turkey) to British mandates. It's different from colonisation, it's rather mandates to give some time for governments to form (a transition), and most were really short-term. British had other colonies in other parts of the world with France & Italy. Obviously, they had some oil interests. But their poor management of the transition led to the establishment of Saudi Arabia controlled by... the Saudi family. Another key point is Israel-Palestine: their poor management led to a conflict that overspread in the entirety of the Middle East: the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that were chased went as refugees in neighboring countries. Lebanon was religiously heterogeneous. Long-story short: civil war because some Palestinians organized their resistance from there, and some events were (often incorrectly) accused to be made by them. Multiple-decades civil war. Now, a party in Iran tries to defend the Shias from Lebanon, etc.

- About Iran: Sam is wrong on so many levels. Iran wasn't a "country of freedom" before the Revolution, it's one of the biggest historical misconceptions you can make about Iran. In 1953, the CIA and the MI6 (UK-equivalent of the CIA) organized a coup d'État. Result: Mossadegh, a modernist that actually made Iran wealthier and freer (and nationalized the national oil company), was replaced by Pahlavi, who transformed Iran into a huge dictatorship. Completely crazy. A lot of people were killed, protests broke out, etc etc etc: he also repressed religious people. So Iranians revolted and answered to repression with the Revolution. Which ended up being another dictature. Just different. Still a dictature. Following Iran-gate a lot of sanctions occurred and killed the country. Poorer country = less education. Still, the majority doesn't enjoy the current government.

Result: UK & US are responsible for the Revolution. Why did they do that? Because they wanted an oil-ally (the previous minister nationalized it) and a strategic position during the Cold War.

- Afghanistan: 1964, Zahir Chah established a constitutional monarchy based on the 4th French Republic and granted a lot of freedom for his population. 1978: communist coup d'État, brutal reforms. Brejnev (USSR) supported the Communists. Carter supported the Islamists. 1979: Russia sends 600,000 men and basically starts a decade-long civil war between Russians, nationalist Afghans, communist Afghans. In the meantime, the Moudjahidins (quite similar to Talibans) were... TRAINED secretly by the CIA through the "cyclone operation" and financed by the US and Saudi Arabia; each one of them gave 3 BILLION DOLLARS. Al Qaida was born during that time. Irony: the US indirectly provoked the formation of Al-Qaida (1987, Ben Laden and Azzam trained Pakistani Mudjahidins to go to war in Afghanistan) and the training of some of its recruits during the war. Then came another American failure... the intervention to "bRiNg dEmOcRaCy" in Afghanistan. 2022: Talibans are in office, women can't go to school anymore. Congrats USA! I'm wondering how the country would be without being in war since the 70s, and without the US training Mudjahidins. Would 9/11 have happened? I don't think so. 

- Iraq: probably one of the biggest disasters in history. Invasion of Iraq on the basis of false proofs. By the US. Approved and helped by the UK. Thankfully, France refused (explaining the French bashing campaign in the 2000s saying that French are cowards). They illegally invaded Iraq to overthrown the dictator that was there and to BrInG DeMoCrACy (quite interesting considering that Iraq is massively rich in terms of natural resources). UNO refused any intervention. They turned the entire country into a war zone with different militias. A lot, a lot, a lot of treasures were destroyed/robbed. Keep in mind that Iraq was one of the oldest civilizations in History and thrived for centuries. Aladdin's city Agrabah was actually based on the capital of Iraq, Baghdad. And obviously, dozens of thousands of civilians killed. Can you imagine being in your living room with your family and hearing sirens because the US decided to bomb your country to free you from your dictator? Doesn't make any sense does it? Britney's infamous interview where she "accepted" it was one of the lowest points of her career to me. Still, I don't blame her, she probably didn't know anything because she was basically having 1 hour of rest a day since 17 and she probably didn't spend it looking at the news, therefore giving a generic answer "I think we should listen to the president." Anyways. Back to subject: ISIS was established there because of the collapse of Iraq. And they were bombing cities in Iraq (yup, don't forget that the main victims of terrorists aren't Westerners where 2% of attacks occur but mainly Middle Easterners where 90%+ of attacks occur). They turned Iraq into a no-laws war zone. 

- Libya: 2011, Arab Springs, revolution by the people for democracy, not provoked by the West, but self-provoked. Ruthless repression from Libya's ruler that was in office for more than 3 decades. It started a civil war. It happens. BUT... France and UK decided to interfere and to help the rebels. Aerian raids; they killed the dictator. Problem: desorganized country. Two different governments in two different cities. France doesn't recognize the same as the UK. Anyways. Country ended up a mess. However, oddly enough: 0 refugees from there. It has only about 7 million inhabitants, but just like Egyptians, there's very few (never met one) refugees.

So yes, Russia, US and UK are highly responsible in the recrudescence of religious extremism in the region. Terrorism as you know it actually didn't exist before the second part of last century. It's very recent, and among its causes there is... Russia, US, UK. Yes. Doesn't mean that they're 100% responsible for what's happening in the ME. But doesn't mean either that they didn't play a major role in it. Because destabilized country = opportunity for extremists to make their movements grow (young, desperate people are the easiest one to convince because they have almost nothing to lose). 

Regarding Iran "the people", I agree with Sam. He is NOT wrong. You are talking about Political freedom and it isn't the context of he was referring to. If that is the case, then countries like the Philippines isn't considered as free as well up to this date.

Your statements does not help their situation. You sound like a propaganda that minimizes the Iranian need for civilian freedom. As a third person listener, you sound like it, and it's not helping. You must be living in the West.

[do the thing]

6 minutes ago, Willson Saints said:

Regarding Iran "the people", I agree with Sam. He is NOT wrong. You are talking about Political freedom and it isn't the context of he was referring to. If that is the case, then countries like the Philippines isn't considered as free as well up to this date.

Your statements does not help their situation. You sound like a propaganda that minimizes the Iranian need for civilian freedom. As a third person listener, you sound like it, and it's not helping. You must be living in the West.

I'm actually trinational. I live in France, but I'm of Tunisian and Eastern European - Bosnian - descent. So I'm pretty familiar with MENA issues. I spent months over there. And although Tunisia isn't Iran, it has some similar issues, especially before the 2011 Revolution. If you need extra info on that feel free to tell me because otherwise this post is gonna be another novel. 

And yes I'm right about what I said. Minorities and basically every single person who didn't align with the shah's vision "disappeared" "went missing", or was tortured/killed no matter their age. No right to protest against a political government's decision => no political freedom => no personal freedom for some persons. If you're a part of a certain minority (let's say: the gays). Go out and try to protest under the Shah's rules in 1978. Same for ethnic minorities in Iraq that refused to abandon their language: they were killed. But.. but... Saddam... gave rights to women! 

W H E R E the **** did I minimize the Iranian need for civilian freedom? Did you take time to read the post? What the **** count as propaganda? I only answered to a person that stated that the entire Middle East has "always" been a ****hole. That's a very ****ty thing to say, first. Second, saying that the West doesn't have anything to do with the current situation is... wrong, from a historical POV. Third, I actually said that the reformist that actually wanted to give personal AND political freedom ruled the country between 1951 and 1953 before being overthrown by the US and the UK. They put in power an authoritarian government that repressed a lot of people leading to resentment and resulting in the Revolution. Sam's statement is incorrect. 1978 Iran wasn't a lan of "free people" (just like 1957 U.S. wasn't the "land of the free"). 

 

[x.rox]

1 hour ago, fays1 said:

So as the Gay person living in the Middle Eastern, im the brainwashed one? Please educate me how it is living as a Gay person in the Middle East, maybe a western perspective will open my eyes.

I think we were both having a respectful and interesting discussion, no need to insert yourself into our discussion by insulting one of us. If you have any insults towards me, address me directly, and im sure ill have a good response for you.

I have a friend who was born in Iran and fled Iran because of the repercussions of him coming out as a gay man. So he came here as a refugee to Canada. And he has NOTHING good to say about his home country. He despises the Regime and acknowledges how backwards his country is. 
 

You are clearly defensive about your country. But many whom are ALSO born there and from there who’ve fled have a very different and I’d posit a more realistic perspective than one who is so engrained in the culture and status quo. 
 

It makes me question if you might be from one of the families that benefits from the Regime. He told me that there’s people and families who are protected by the government and whom collect massive amounts of money who support them. 
 

And maybe you’re not but the fact that even exists there is enough to question people whom seem to defend or are apologists for their government and the culture there. 

You do you boo boo.

[Applejack]

1 hour ago, Dave92 said:

P.s not trying to be offensive, I just think you’re a bit biased in a “patriotic” way. It’s understandable, but justifying heinous crimes that are performed on a daily basis just cause “the west isn’t perfect too” won’t get the Middle East anywhere. 

sure, but calling them barbaric won't help you as well. It's just xenophobia coming from a place that some years ago outlawed homos***ual relationships (UK lol). They're just saying that they've been living through dictatorships but, as evidently noted by the protests since ever, the people are not happy with the government.

[do the thing]

22 minutes ago, x.rox said:

I have a friend who was born in Iran and fled Iran because of the repercussions of him coming out as a gay man. So he came here as a refugee to Canada. And he has NOTHING good to say about his home country. He despises the Regime and acknowledges how backwards his country is. 
 

You are clearly defensive about your country. But many whom are ALSO born there and from there who’ve fled have a very different and I’d posit a more realistic perspective than one who is so engrained in the culture and status quo. 
 

It makes me question if you might be from one of the families that benefits from the Regime. He told me that there’s people and families who are protected by the government and whom collect massive amounts of money who support them. 
 

And maybe you’re not but the fact that even exists there is enough to question people whom seem to defend or are apologists for their government and the culture there. 

You do you boo boo.

Your post is outright obnoxious.

Are you really accusing him of being "sold to the government", same government that killed two gay persons lately?

Oh, and go open a dictionary: government and culture aren't the same. If Iran becomes a democracy like Norway, Iranian culture will still be there: food, literature, art, architecture, ways of greeting, hairstyles, fashion, decoration, well basically Iran. 

Not every person has the means to flee to another country. It's a very complex process, especially when you're from a country that's basically sanctioned by most LGBT-friendly countries. 

And there are others who don't want to leave their country because they want to change things from the inside. This typical "you don't like this? Go to [insert country]." And they're attached to their country, their culture. What? Middle Easterners should just erase their entire culture, their language, like everything because of the laws of their country? WOW. 

Your friend despises the regime. Well, if he's a refugee it's obvious. Does he despise the culture? Does he despise EVERYTHING from Iran? It's quite common for refugees to try to dissociate themselves completely from their former culture, it's a defense mechanism quite common in people suffering from PTSD. In a few years, he'll probably reconcile himself with his culture and have a more nuanced POV - there are some good things about his cultures, and other things to immediately change. 

When the French made the Revolution leading to the establishment of the Human Rights Declaration in 1789, they didn't abandon their culture, they actually enhanced what they considered to be the "good parts of it." The King's apartments and palace wasn't burned down, but rather seen as a piece of architecture and transformed into a museum (after it's been robbed by mobsters). 

And quite funny of you to call an entire country "backwards" when this topic is about massive protests from Iranian people themselves occurring throughout the entire country that want to change Iran. 

21 minutes ago, Applejack said:

sure, but calling them barbaric won't help you as well. It's just xenophobia coming from a place that some years ago outlawed ********ual relationships (UK lol). They're just saying that they've been living through dictatorships but, as evidently noted by the protests since ever, the people are not happy with the government.

This. 

Some people here tend to forget that s0d0my laws were a thing in the US not so long ago, and that the UK, considered as one of the most gay-friendly countries in the world... emasculated a war-hero that basically invented computers and informatics and without who British would be speaking German nowadays. Only to outlaw it what, 40 years ago? Now you have tons of TV shows, literature, movies and stuff about the Victorian era and also these years. All of these enhanced parts of English culture. Doesn't mean that a culture shouldn't change, but you can appreciate some of its elements.

I'm done with this utterly stupid rhetoric "backwards country, **** culture, just change idk x." Sounds like Trump supporters when they're told that 'Murica is gonna bring some democracy to "****hole countries."

[fays1]

6 hours ago, x.rox said:

I have a friend who was born in Iran and fled Iran because of the repercussions of him coming out as a gay man. So he came here as a refugee to Canada. And he has NOTHING good to say about his home country. He despises the Regime and acknowledges how backwards his country is. 
 

You are clearly defensive about your country. But many whom are ALSO born there and from there who’ve fled have a very different and I’d posit a more realistic perspective than one who is so engrained in the culture and status quo. 
 

It makes me question if you might be from one of the families that benefits from the Regime. He told me that there’s people and families who are protected by the government and whom collect massive amounts of money who support them. 
 

And maybe you’re not but the fact that even exists there is enough to question people whom seem to defend or are apologists for their government and the culture there. 

You do you boo boo.

But I did not defend or support the Middle East / Islamic countries. Maybe you should actually read my comments instead of having imaginations and assumptions of who you think I am?

I also havent been defensive, I have been very respectful to people callling me brainwashed who lives in a ****hole country and culture, and accusing me of horrible things.

A person who fled a country as a refugee is not going to have a realistic perspective, both him and I can be blinded by our situations and have our own biases. So instead of using your imagination and assumping, maybe engage with my actual comments?

[Kiss my]

Great to see Sam bringing awareness to these important issues 

Spoiler

Me reading the title:

Britney has a husband?

Spoiler

In all seriousness I thought Sam is known well enough on Exhale that we don’t need to say he’s Britney’s husband 

 

[SugarfallOnYoFacexx]

16 hours ago, Caleb Ellis said:

 

It’s the rose for me 

[SugarfallOnYoFacexx]

I’m all about good change for people of all places always 🌹 I support 

As long as it doesn’t effect everyone negatively 

or anything idk  🤷‍♂️ gay people contribute to society too half of us keep the music industry intact

[Lizardface]

22 hours ago, Dave92 said:

Hmm… Iran (and most of the Middle East) has always been a ****hole. I don’t care what “great culture” they supposedly had…minorities, gay people and women are literally abused by law and no beautiful scenery or whatever will change that. It’s not just “culturally different”, it’s barbaric and hateful. 

Yes, and many are struggling/dying trying to change it or escape. Have some compassion. @Jordan Miller why do you allow such discrimination against the Middle East but ban people for calling Christina fat? 

[PinkBarbie]

On 9/23/2022 at 7:55 PM, Dave92 said:

Hmm… Iran (and most of the Middle East) has always been a ****hole. I don’t care what “great culture” they supposedly had…minorities, gay people and women are literally abused by law and no beautiful scenery or whatever will change that. It’s not just “culturally different”, it’s barbaric and hateful. 

I don't understand why everyone is mad at this post

It has nothing to do with the people

And I'm half Iranian and been there many times but I agree with this

[Dave92]

1 hour ago, Prerogative Rave said:

I don't understand why everyone is mad at this post

It has nothing to do with the people

And I'm half Iranian and been there many times but I agree with this

It’s odd, isn’t it? The “blame the west” mentality has really taken over some people’s minds to the point they can’t even condemn the most obvious facts. I’m literally encouraging the current protest, yet some (presumably LGBT/liberal people) still find ways to justify the ****ed up mentality in the Middle East. 

The fact even Sam claims things were so beautiful in the past over there… Um, just cause things got even worse doesn’t mean it was good before. We just got too used to it, “oh it’s a different culture over there, so let’s just cover our faces when he visit, but the food is good and the scenery is lovely”… Time to wake up. The Middle East is atrocious, even if the “big bad west” isn’t 100% perfect either. 

[Willson Saints]

18 hours ago, do the thing said:

I'm actually trinational. I live in France, but I'm of Tunisian and Eastern European - Bosnian - descent. So I'm pretty familiar with MENA issues. I spent months over there. And although Tunisia isn't Iran, it has some similar issues, especially before the 2011 Revolution. If you need extra info on that feel free to tell me because otherwise this post is gonna be another novel. 

And yes I'm right about what I said. Minorities and basically every single person who didn't align with the shah's vision "disappeared" "went missing", or was tortured/killed no matter their age. No right to protest against a political government's decision => no political freedom => no personal freedom for some persons. If you're a part of a certain minority (let's say: the gays). Go out and try to protest under the Shah's rules in 1978. Same for ethnic minorities in Iraq that refused to abandon their language: they were killed. But.. but... Saddam... gave rights to women! 

W H E R E the **** did I minimize the Iranian need for civilian freedom? Did you take time to read the post? What the **** count as propaganda? I only answered to a person that stated that the entire Middle East has "always" been a ****hole. That's a very ****ty thing to say, first. Second, saying that the West doesn't have anything to do with the current situation is... wrong, from a historical POV. Third, I actually said that the reformist that actually wanted to give personal AND political freedom ruled the country between 1951 and 1953 before being overthrown by the US and the UK. They put in power an authoritarian government that repressed a lot of people leading to resentment and resulting in the Revolution. Sam's statement is incorrect. 1978 Iran wasn't a lan of "free people" (just like 1957 U.S. wasn't the "land of the free"). 

 

You're missing the point. Calling out Sam's wrong when you aren't seeing it from an Iranian's point of view will NOT help the situation. Do it another time when the issue in their country is over. We get it. You're one of those who know-it-all.... But, now isn't the time to exhibit it. 

Oh, I see it now. Tunisia... Since you said it...

What would I expect from a person from who is from a country, the majority of citizens of which are identified as Arabs, regarding their viewpoint on Persians and their position (claim)?

And what would I expect from a mindset of a person who has been touched by Sunni regarding their stance on Shia?

Anyway, you can be defensive all you want. But people like you are only after winning an argument for the sake of winning. Your consequentialism is not utilitarian in nature, but hedonistic. So, I'm allowing myself to disengage.

 

[gar]

21 hours ago, fays1 said:

My comment was not about Iran, it was about Islamic countries in general as thats what your comment was about. Iran is the only Islamic country out of 55 Islamic countries where hijab is inforced. I wont judge Christianity based on its worst example like taking an African Christian country and use it as an example.

I wont go into details of western human rights violations, its public knowledge at this point. But western crimes are heald with a completely different standard, and are socially and lawfully accepted till this day. These western crimes are comitted on a daily basis massively on a worldwide scale, its not just one incident. Even concentration camps like Guantanamo Bay illegally still exist and nobody says anything about it.

Im not coming from a place of patriotism as I dont believe in that. I believe Muslim countries have many issues, which is why I would agree if you simply said the Middle East have a Gay rights issue they have to deal with. But you said way more than that which is why I had to disagreed with you. Yes there should be criticism towards the Middle East, but to call us all a ****hole place thats uniquely bad with bad culture, and paint us all (including citizents) with a broad brush is wrong.

You know it's possible for the middle east to be a hellhole that human rights have forgotten and the US to be a half step away from fascism, simultaneously.

[do the thing]

3 hours ago, Willson Saints said:

You're missing the point. Calling out Sam's wrong when you aren't seeing it from an Iranian's point of view will NOT help the situation. Do it another time when the issue in their country is over. We get it. You're one of those who know-it-all.... But, now isn't the time to exhibit it. 

Oh, I see it now. Tunisia... Since you said it...

What would I expect from a person from who is from a country, the majority of citizens of which are identified as Arabs, regarding their viewpoint on Persians and their position (claim)?

And what would I expect from a mindset of a person who has been touched by Sunni regarding their stance on Shia?

Anyway, you can be defensive all you want. But people like you are only after winning an argument for the sake of winning. Your consequentialism is not utilitarian in nature, but hedonistic. So, I'm allowing myself to disengage.

I'm here to discuss, otherwise I wouldn't bother. I got defensive because you accused me of making some propaganda and basically put words in my mouth that... weren't mine. I never said that I was a "know-it-all", but to me it's wrong to defend the government that Iran had in 1978 before the Revolution. Because, you know, that's what caused the Revolution. 

Tunisia isn't Iran yes, you're right. I said that they had some similar issues. Similar doesn't mean same. Tunisia was a ruthless dictatorship but a secular one, a little bit comparable to Iran situation in the 1970s. In 2011, Arab Springs: people want to choose their government. Then, people debating about having a very religious government & country or not. Population divided about it. Those are common themes in both countries. One is harsher/stricter (Iran), but yeah if you're from the MENA region you can understand a bit better these issues. 

I don't know how Shia/Sunni is relevant for this topic... It's another subject. For ethnicity, well Tunisia are technically Arabs but culturally they're "Maghrebi", North Africans, and share a similar culture to Morocco & Algeria. These countries are very different from Levantine ones (Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine), Gulf ones (SA, UAE, Qatar, Bahrein, Kuweit), and Iran. Still, they're all despite their huge differences part of a region that share some similitudes. Just like the West: France, Spain, Italy and the US are insanely different. But they have things in common. 

4 hours ago, Dave92 said:

It’s odd, isn’t it? The “blame the west” mentality has really taken over some people’s minds to the point they can’t even condemn the most obvious facts. I’m literally encouraging the current protest, yet some (presumably LGBT/liberal people) still find ways to justify the ****ed up mentality in the Middle East. 

The fact even Sam claims things were so beautiful in the past over there… Um, just cause things got even worse doesn’t mean it was good before. We just got too used to it, “oh it’s a different culture over there, so let’s just cover our faces when he visit, but the food is good and the scenery is lovely”… Time to wake up. The Middle East is atrocious, even if the “big bad west” isn’t 100% perfect either. 

Meh. Nobody said "blame the West for all the problems over there." If you were targeting my posts, and if you had actually red them, perhaps you would've noticed that I only responded to you saying that the West wasn't at fault. Yes, they are. Obviously, it's not entirely their fault. But they had a significant influence in shaping the Middle East current situation. The West, Russia, and the local population/governments. If Afghanistan & Iraq turned into what they are today, it's the fault of the US & Russia. Yup. And ofc a part of the local population. But without outside interference, perhaps they wouldn't have been polluted with terrorist groups. 

And who justified the mentality that you're pointed out in this thread? Nobody. People were just responding to "****hole country", which is an expression that disregards both an entire culture and their people. Going liberal doesn't mean abandoning your culture. It's just a way of wording things. This rhetoric doesn't do much besides closing the dialogue even more, as people who are attached to their culture will associate liberalism to... culture abandonment/erasure, which is a significant political theme in our globalized world. 

[RebellionSparkles]

On 9/23/2022 at 11:04 AM, Caleb Ellis said:

 

I love EVERYTHING about him!

[Willson Saints]

2 hours ago, do the thing said:

I'm here to discuss, otherwise I wouldn't bother. I got defensive because you accused me of making some propaganda and basically put words in my mouth that... weren't mine. I never said that I was a "know-it-all", but to me it's wrong to defend the government that Iran had in 1978 before the Revolution. Because, you know, that's what caused the Revolution. 

Tunisia isn't Iran yes, you're right. I said that they had some similar issues. Similar doesn't mean same. Tunisia was a ruthless dictatorship but a secular one, a little bit comparable to Iran situation in the 1970s. In 2011, Arab Springs: people want to choose their government. Then, people debating about having a very religious government & country or not. Population divided about it. Those are common themes in both countries. One is harsher/stricter (Iran), but yeah if you're from the MENA region you can understand a bit better these issues. 

I don't know how Shia/Sunni is relevant for this topic... It's another subject. For ethnicity, well Tunisia are technically Arabs but culturally they're "Maghrebi", North Africans, and share a similar culture to Morocco & Algeria. These countries are very different from Levantine ones (Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine), Gulf ones (SA, UAE, Qatar, Bahrein, Kuweit), and Iran. Still, they're all despite their huge differences part of a region that share some similitudes. Just like the West: France, Spain, Italy and the US are insanely different. But they have things in common. 

Meh. Nobody said "blame the West for all the problems over there." If you were targeting my posts, and if you had actually red them, perhaps you would've noticed that I only responded to you saying that the West wasn't at fault. Yes, they are. Obviously, it's not entirely their fault. But they had a significant influence in shaping the Middle East current situation. The West, Russia, and the local population/governments. If Afghanistan & Iraq turned into what they are today, it's the fault of the US & Russia. Yup. And ofc a part of the local population. But without outside interference, perhaps they wouldn't have been polluted with terrorist groups. 

And who justified the mentality that you're pointed out in this thread? Nobody. People were just responding to "****hole country", which is an expression that disregards both an entire culture and their people. Going liberal doesn't mean abandoning your culture. It's just a way of wording things. This rhetoric doesn't do much besides closing the dialogue even more, as people who are attached to their culture will associate liberalism to... culture abandonment/erasure, which is a significant political theme in our globalized world. 

I'm sorry, but Iran isn't stricter. Many Arabs are just blind followers. You have to be HERE to know. If you are here to discuss, then I am here to tell you you're wrong. You are the one putting words in our history, like what I said, you have to be HERE to know. I feel sorry you keep missing the point. Keep all your googlelized narratives of Iranian history to yourself. Like I said, they AREN'T helping our situation NOW. You heard of the sociological world-view? Respect it. Iran before the Revolution is a LOT better, period. ❤️❤️❤️ If you aren't Iranian, then do NOT pretend you know on the basis of either your westernized/arabized versions.

P.S. Know-it-all persons don't say they are; they act it. Look at them. So focused on proving they are right, even more than learning from their mistakes (they never admit they do). They front what they know a little too much as that's all that they have. 😅 They are so defensive. So self-entitled. So narcissistic. So know-it-all. Familiar? Oops. #exposed

[fays1]

6 hours ago, gar said:

You know it's possible for the middle east to be a hellhole that human rights have forgotten and the US to be a half step away from fascism, simultaneously.

Sorry English is not my first language, not sure if I understood

[fays1]

 

7 hours ago, Dave92 said:

It’s odd, isn’t it? The “blame the west” mentality has really taken over some people’s minds to the point they can’t even condemn the most obvious facts. I’m literally encouraging the current protest, yet some (presumably LGBT/liberal people) still find ways to justify the ****ed up mentality in the Middle East. 

The fact even Sam claims things were so beautiful in the past over there… Um, just cause things got even worse doesn’t mean it was good before. We just got too used to it, “oh it’s a different culture over there, so let’s just cover our faces when he visit, but the food is good and the scenery is lovely”… Time to wake up. The Middle East is atrocious, even if the “big bad west” isn’t 100% perfect either. 

I never blamed the west, I gave examples of human rights violations that the west also does.

I also never justified or refuse to condemn the human rights violations in the Middle East, I actually did condemn it multiple times.

And then you try to question my ***uality of being Gay because I disagreed with you

Your comment is full of bad faith arguments

[fays1]

9 hours ago, Prerogative Rave said:

I don't understand why everyone is mad at this post

It has nothing to do with the people

And I'm half Iranian and been there many times but I agree with this

He did blame the people if you read his comments

There is a difference between saying Iran is a country that has a human rights violations problem that targets women and Gay people, and between calling Iran a ****hole culture and country and and painting everyone in it with a broad brush

Im not offended, I simply responded in a respectful way, yet he and others responded to me in a disrespectful way.