Court admits there was never a capacity declaration ever filed in Britney's "voluntary" conservatorship case

[queenofhearts]

12 hours ago, Prince Ali said:

to see her children? they probably blackmailed her ...

exactly!!Plus, if it's "voluntary" then why did she need to hire a lawyer to get out of it? lol

[Steel Magnolia]

On 12/6/2021 at 1:34 PM, Bambas said:

But in order to getting to the permanent conservatorship they had to first get a temporary one. They cheated the system. Most probably the system willingly let them cheat.

I don't disagree. Your statement is factually accurate.

However, it's not legally accurate.

I was referring to Jordan's statement:
 

Quote

Interestingly, the court called it a "voluntary" conservatorship, when in actuality it wasn't.

At some point, Britney must have voluntarily agreed to the permanent conservatorship...Vivian doesn't make statements that aren't legally accurate. At least I've never seen her do it.

[queenofhearts]

so the netflix doc Britney VS Spears -erin was reading some document someone sent her and there was  a sentence (not a declaraion document) that said britney lacked capacity. When they questioned James Spar about it he sorta denied it and told them "show me the signed declaration with my signature".  My question is why would that sentence be in a court document when no declaration was ever declared. Unless they were just hoping the judge would read that sentence and assume a declaration was in the filings without ever looking

[Kletus]

2 hours ago, Steel Magnolia said:

I don't disagree. Your statement is factually accurate.

However, it's not legally accurate.

I was referring to Jordan's statement:
 

At some point, Britney must have voluntarily agreed to the permanent conservatorship...Vivian doesn't make statements that aren't legally accurate. At least I've never seen her do it.

Larry and Vivian called Britney going to the mental health facility “voluntary” but in court, Britney said she was threatened into going, they used her children against her. Britney must have signed the dotted line but she didn’t know her rights. Scam Ingham never even told her she could get married. They threatened her and then claimed it was “voluntary” after she went along with it because legally she did say okay, but she was threatened into doing so, at least according to Britney. “I’m threatened, can’t see my children or my boyfriend unless I do what they tell me.”

[Catalin]

3 hours ago, Steel Magnolia said:

I don't disagree. Your statement is factually accurate.

However, it's not legally accurate.

I was referring to Jordan's statement:
 

At some point, Britney must have voluntarily agreed to the permanent conservatorship...Vivian doesn't make statements that aren't legally accurate. At least I've never seen her do it.

I could be wrong, but I assume that for a conservatorship to be called "voluntary", the subject must acknowledge they are aware and agree to it, not have their right to notice waived... I don't remember seeing proofs of Britney consenting to it on record. 

[Catalin]

On 12/7/2021 at 12:23 AM, Stannedforever said:

This this THIS! 

There are people who are in need of help in their everyday life, which is why supported decision making exists. Guardianship/conservatorship should be the absolutely last resort for people who completely lack understanding and/or ability to make decisions on their own. "Voluntary" conservatorship should simply not exists at all and permanent conservatorship should always be turned into supported decision making if the conservatee says so. This would help millions of abused people now and in the future. "

"Voluntary" conservatorship is just a term they came up with to make their racket seem legit. 

[Tar_isa]

4 hours ago, queenofhearts said:

so the netflix doc Britney VS Spears -erin was reading some document someone sent her and there was  a sentence (not a declaraion document) that said britney lacked capacity. When they questioned James Spar about it he sorta denied it and told them "show me the signed declaration with my signature".  My question is why would that sentence be in a court document when no declaration was ever declared. Unless they were just hoping the judge would read that sentence and assume a declaration was in the filings without ever looking

Actually, it's not like "they were just hoping the judge would assume a declaration was in the filings", it's even worse because the judge was actually in on the con. It was the actual judge who said that sentence. She told Adam Streisand directly that she had a document signed by Dr Spar (who she knew Streisand respected highly) stating B had no capacity to retain counsel, so he couldn't be her lawyer and had to leave. If I recall correctly Streisand wanted to see the document but the Judge said she didn't have it right there, but she could assure him it existed or something like that, so she basically kicked Streisand out, and he left believing there was actually a document somewhere, and that's how they left Britey defenseless for 14 years.

[Steel Magnolia]

8 hours ago, Kletus said:

Larry and Vivian called Britney going to the mental health facility “voluntary” but in court, Britney said she was threatened into going, they used her children against her. Britney must have signed the dotted line but she didn’t know her rights. Scam Ingham never even told her she could get married. They threatened her and then claimed it was “voluntary” after she went along with it because legally she did say okay, but she was threatened into doing so, at least according to Britney. “I’m threatened, can’t see my children or my boyfriend unless I do what they tell me.”

I don't disagree with you...From a factual perspective.

But legally?

Britney must have signed on the dotted line...Somewhere. And that's all they would need.

[Steel Magnolia]

7 hours ago, Catalin said:

I could be wrong, but I assume that for a conservatorship to be called "voluntary", the subject must acknowledge they are aware and agree to it, not have their right to notice waived... I don't remember seeing proofs of Britney consenting to it on record. 

I don't recall seeing it either, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

There are thousands of court documents that exist that nobody has paid for yet.

[Bambas]

15 minutes ago, Steel Magnolia said:

I don't disagree with you...From a factual perspective.

But legally?

Britney must have signed on the dotted line...Somewhere. And that's all they would need.

I agree with you but I still believe they cheated the system. If for the temporary conservatorship it was deemed that she lacked capacity, how can it be that suddenly she has the capacity to agree to a permanent conservatorship?

[Onyx1Boss]

31 minutes ago, Steel Magnolia said:

I don't disagree with you...From a factual perspective.

But legally?

Britney must have signed on the dotted line...Somewhere. And that's all they would need.

Don't agree. Vivian was grasping at straws and desperate.

She and the Jerylls were in on it from day 1.

If they had such a document, they would be triumphantly waving it from the rooftops and TMZ headlines.

They just switched narratives to dupe the courts, Britney,  public opinion as it served them. 

They had the records sealed at every stage, and Britney's lawyer Ingham doing their bidding.

They never expected to be cross examined or forced to prove their lies.

Nobody reads those documents if the concerned lawyer doesn't. In this case Freebritney started doing it and spotlighting the lies.

They just lied their way through it

[Steel Magnolia]

52 minutes ago, Bambas said:

I agree with you but I still believe they cheated the system. If for the temporary conservatorship it was deemed that she lacked capacity, how can it be that suddenly she has the capacity to agree to a permanent conservatorship?

 

35 minutes ago, Onyx1Boss said:

Don't agree. Vivian was grasping at straws and desperate.

She and the Jerylls were in on it from day 1.

If they had such a document, they would be triumphantly waving it from the rooftops and TMZ headlines.

They just switched narratives to dupe the courts, Britney,  public opinion as it served them. 

They had the records sealed at every stage, and Britney's lawyer Ingham doing their bidding.

They never expected to be cross examined or forced to prove their lies.

Nobody reads those documents if the concerned lawyer doesn't. In this case Freebritney started doing it and spotlighting the lies.

They just lied their way through it

 

Did Britney not state it herself in her June testimony?

She agreed to go along with the permanent conservatorship because she thought it would end after the Circus tour.

EDIT:

They don't need her signature...All they need is a "Yes" out of her on the court record.

[Bambas]

1 minute ago, Steel Magnolia said:

 

 

Did Britney not state it herself in her June testimony?

She agreed to go along with the permanent conservatorship because she thought it would end after the Circus tour.

At that time, it was still a temporary conservatorship. 

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

[Bambas]

37 minutes ago, Onyx1Boss said:

Don't agree. Vivian was grasping at straws and desperate.

She and the Jerylls were in on it from day 1.

If they had such a document, they would be triumphantly waving it from the rooftops and TMZ headlines.

They just switched narratives to dupe the courts, Britney,  public opinion as it served them. 

They had the records sealed at every stage, and Britney's lawyer Ingham doing their bidding.

They never expected to be cross examined or forced to prove their lies.

Nobody reads those documents if the concerned lawyer doesn't. In this case Freebritney started doing it and spotlighting the lies.

They just lied their way through it

Good point. 

[Steel Magnolia]

Just now, Bambas said:

At that time, it was still a temporary conservatorship. 

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

Oct. 28, 2008 - Los Angeles Superior Court Commissioner Reva Goetz rules that Britney's conservatorship will become permanent. (Case # BP109096)

Mar. 3, 2009 - The first date of the Circus Starring Britney Spears occurs in New Orleans, LA.

 

[DuranDuran]

10 minutes ago, Steel Magnolia said:

Did Britney not state it herself in her June testimony?

She agreed to go along with the permanent conservatorship because she thought it would end after the Circus tour.

In her July testimony, and no, it was said in the context of a medical evaluation as reasons why she lost confidence in their evals and did not want to go through a new one.

But she never said that her Cship was voluntary.

[Bambas]

5 minutes ago, DuranDuran said:

In her July testimony, and no, it was said in the context of a medical evaluation as reasons why she lost confidence in their evals and did not want to go through a new one.

But she never said that her Cship was voluntary.

Because it was clearly not voluntary, in the strict sense of the word. 

[Steel Magnolia]

20 minutes ago, Bambas said:

Because it was clearly not voluntary, in the strict sense of the word. 

I'm not talking about the colloquial definition of voluntary.

I'm talking about the "legal" definition.

All they've got to do is get her on the court record with an "Uh huh" and they've got her.

[Steel Magnolia]

29 minutes ago, DuranDuran said:

In her July testimony, and no, it was said in the context of a medical evaluation as reasons why she lost confidence in their evals and did not want to go through a new one.

But she never said that her Cship was voluntary.

Here's the transcript of the June 23rd hearing:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20985067-britney-spears-june-23-conservatorship-hearing-transcript

I haven't had time to scroll through it yet, but I will...And will be looking for a particular line in regards to touring.

My hunch is the "voluntary" was in regards to insurance and the ability to see her boys.

[blackingouthenegativity]

If you watching the Framing Britney Spears documentary, it does sound like she signed onto it at some point, but when it was temporary. In the letter Andrew Gallery read on TikTok, Britney mentioned that she was "set up." I might be making too big of a leap, but I believe she meant she was set up when she signed onto it when it was temporary.

They probably told her if she signed on and did another album/tour, she'd get her kids back and it would end.