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Afghanistan Situation


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2 hours ago, Stefani said:

I mean, I partially blame Bush for getting us involved in this mess 20 years ago. But the brunt of the blame falls upon the Afghani government for being the epitome of incompetence and corruption. There was no way to save them from themselves.

:well_cookie_monster_point_blue_black: This, they had 20 years to strengthen their government

As soon as Biden pulled the US out to save trillions, they fled :tired_so_there_head_tilt_annoyed_see_rose_mcgowan:

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I'm not super versed on the entire situation but I've been reading so many comments of people from different countries condemning U.S and Biden. I may be ignorant by saying this, but I don't understand why so many believe it's first, America's fault this all went down and second, that America needs to fix their issues? 

Now Trump and his cult followers are requesting Biden to resign. 

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My questions is: Why does the US even step into the matter anyway? Like, it's none of their business.

It's obviously economically and politically motivated. Don't tell me that they invest money and lives to save other people because I do NOT buy the Hollywood version of them being the planet's superhero.

And even so, they effed up, because there's still a mess all over that place, so what are they even doing there...

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7 hours ago, Stefani said:

I mean, I partially blame Bush for getting us involved in this mess 20 years ago. But the brunt of the blame falls upon the Afghani government for being the epitome of incompetence and corruption. There was no way to save them from themselves.

1 hour ago, bitbitboi said:

My questions is: Why does the US even step into the matter anyway? Like, it's none of their business.

It's obviously economically and politically motivated. Don't tell me that they invest money and lives to save other people because I do NOT buy the Hollywood version of them being the planet's superhero.

And even so, they effed up, because there's still a mess all over that place, so what are they even doing there...

 

Bush is one of the $hittiest presidents of US' history. one of the most disappointed Britney moments ever was when she "supported" him for invading Irak. but I don't resent her at all, in that time, she said that she had 1-hour break per day, it's not like she knew what was going on, and just tried to bring a generic sweet answer to not seem polemical.

but the US got themselves involved in Afghanistan's mess much before. in 1979, a putsch occurred in Afghanistan, communists took power (just like in other Central Asia countries). A civil war started, and USRR helped the communists. The US helped the rebels (the moudjahidines, including... the talibans) because for them, the most important thing to do was to get rid of communism. during those days, they supported people that were going to be international terrorists, including ben laden, which was trained by the CIA :wonka_meme_hat_purple:

when the war stopped, the country was a huge mess, and small groups of all kind (by ethnicity, religion affiliation, terrorists, atheists etc.) fought with each other leading to another war to control the country :wonka_meme_hat_purple: the US started to get involved in it again in 2001 after 9/11. they wanted to control the region again after realizing the consequences of what they did. oh, and also, it'd profit the armature and military industries, don't be naive, the intervention which costed more than 2000 billion USD was motivated by three factors: 1. strategy (influence on the region) 2. security 3. economy (opium, drugs, industries)  :wonka_meme_hat_purple: in 2011 Obama tried to collaborate with the UN and other countries, it didn't work :queenriri_rihanna_red_wave_carpet_smile:

I don't know how to resolve the situation. at this point, we're talking about a country that's been in war for more than 4 decades. 

2 hours ago, MikeHunt said:

I'm not super versed on the entire situation but I've been reading so many comments of people from different countries condemning U.S and Biden. I may be ignorant by saying this, but I don't understand why so many believe it's first, America's fault this all went down and second, that America needs to fix their issues? 

Now Trump and his cult followers are requesting Biden to resign. 

trump is just an opportunist: his administration negociated with the talibans in 2018 because he didn't want to be involved in the Middle East anymore. trump's intern policy was a big pile of ****, but trump's extern policy was actually muuuuch better than Obama's. 

 

at this point, yeah, America is to blame for the situation. they heavily participated into bringing chaos to the country for several decades. USRR is to blame for too. and, of course, Afghan politicians are to blame for. do America have to step in once again? it probably wouldn't work. didn't work in Syria. didn't work in Libya. didn't work in Iran. didn't work in Cuba. it's not the 90s anymore, Kosovo, Bosnia, Koweit and Haiti were probably the only "successful" operations. now they don't know how to deal with the mess they participated in. I wouldn't know either tbh. 

 

for now, I think that Afghanistan is just diving into chaos more and more. until not anymore. most countries at some point in history reached that low point. let's just hope that it won't last long. 4 decades is insane. 

 

I'm just sad for people who will live into the talibans tyranny. the irony in their orthodoxy is that most of them are illiterate. trying to educate people without being able to read. 

 

 

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A British friend of mine said this..

 

Maybe if the US starts another war like they did with the invasion of Iraq, maybe we shouldn't help them, cos after all they are to blame for this themselves..

 

It's their fault this happened, you don't invade countries and expect them to be thankful, they never asked for your help in the first place..

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3 hours ago, do the thing said:

 

Bush is one of the $hittiest presidents of US' history. one of the most disappointed Britney moments ever was when she "supported" him for invading Irak. but I don't resent her at all, in that time, she said that she had 1-hour break per day, it's not like she knew what was going on, and just tried to bring a generic sweet answer to not seem polemical.

but the US got themselves involved in Afghanistan's mess much before. in 1979, a putsch occurred in Afghanistan, communists took power (just like in other Central Asia countries). A civil war started, and USRR helped the communists. The US helped the rebels (the moudjahidines, including... the talibans) because for them, the most important thing to do was to get rid of communism. during those days, they supported people that were going to be international terrorists, including ben laden, which was trained by the CIA :wonka_meme_hat_purple:

when the war stopped, the country was a huge mess, and small groups of all kind (by ethnicity, religion affiliation, terrorists, atheists etc.) fought with each other leading to another war to control the country :wonka_meme_hat_purple: the US started to get involved in it again in 2001 after 9/11. they wanted to control the region again after realizing the consequences of what they did. oh, and also, it'd profit the armature and military industries, don't be naive, the intervention which costed more than 2000 billion USD was motivated by three factors: 1. strategy (influence on the region) 2. security 3. economy (opium, drugs, industries)  :wonka_meme_hat_purple: in 2011 Obama tried to collaborate with the UN and other countries, it didn't work :queenriri_rihanna_red_wave_carpet_smile:

I don't know how to resolve the situation. at this point, we're talking about a country that's been in war for more than 4 decades. 

trump is just an opportunist: his administration negociated with the talibans in 2018 because he didn't want to be involved in the Middle East anymore. trump's intern policy was a big pile of ****, but trump's extern policy was actually muuuuch better than Obama's. 

 

at this point, yeah, America is to blame for the situation. they heavily participated into bringing chaos to the country for several decades. USRR is to blame for too. and, of course, Afghan politicians are to blame for. do America have to step in once again? it probably wouldn't work. didn't work in Syria. didn't work in Libya. didn't work in Iran. didn't work in Cuba. it's not the 90s anymore, Kosovo, Bosnia, Koweit and Haiti were probably the only "successful" operations. now they don't know how to deal with the mess they participated in. I wouldn't know either tbh. 

 

for now, I think that Afghanistan is just diving into chaos more and more. until not anymore. most countries at some point in history reached that low point. let's just hope that it won't last long. 4 decades is insane. 

 

I'm just sad for people who will live into the talibans tyranny. the irony in their orthodoxy is that most of them are illiterate. trying to educate people without being able to read.

Thank you for all the information and insight... This is such a mess.

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13 hours ago, Spicechinodiva said:

A British friend of mine said this..

 

Maybe if the US starts another war like they did with the invasion of Iraq, maybe we shouldn't help them, cos after all they are to blame for this themselves..

 

It's their fault this happened, you don't invade countries and expect them to be thankful, they never asked for your help in the first place..

Be prepared to face some British-bashing in the US for a few months-years then, as it happened to France when Chirac refuse to participate in the invasion of Iraq :queenriri_rihanna_red_wave_carpet_smile:

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It is so sad what is happening and it is heartbreaking to see how people are trying desperately to leave the country.

I am very disappointed already with some european presidents saying they will block refugee waves from Afghanistan... it is unfair that EU citizens can move freely in Europe and people who are escaping from death only find rejection. Very sad.

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I compare it to Handmaids Tale- we were Canada trying to help. The fact that all the money spent and time spent and lives lost just for this to be the result is damn disappointing..

PS I’m not well educated on the subject bc I avoid the news like the plague these days but this is what I’d gathered atleast..

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On 8/17/2021 at 6:11 AM, Stefani said:

I mean, I partially blame Bush for getting us involved in this mess 20 years ago. But the brunt of the blame falls upon the Afghani government for being the epitome of incompetence and corruption. There was no way to save them from themselves.

 

On 8/17/2021 at 8:47 AM, Brat said:

:well_cookie_monster_point_blue_black: This, they had 20 years to strengthen their government

As soon as Biden pulled the US out to save trillions, they fled :tired_so_there_head_tilt_annoyed_see_rose_mcgowan:

what I was reading on reddit on a thread that were asking for the opinion of people that actually served in the army, is that apparently within Afghani people there isn't a sense of country, but it's mostly like separate tribes or groups of people. Without that sense of unity, it's obvious they'll never get a competent government that is able to control all the different populations.

There's obviously mixed opinions because of all the innocent people that is gonna pay the consequences, but the general consensus is that there really wasn't anything else to do. It's like, there was no goal, there was no point where they would be like "ok, we're done, we fixed everything, the troops can go back and everything will stay fine". The army could've stayed there forever, and it was just gonna be a never ending story.

 

In other news, Mexican government has announced they'll receive any Afghani people that asks for asylum, and they're gonna send them specifically to the city where I live, of all country, as if we didn't have enough problems with all the immigrants from South and Central America that want to cross to the US and stay in the streets doing nothing until they're received. :icant2_britney_nope_smh_head_shake_disappointed_everytime: I mean, it's ok to be generous, but it's ironic that our government wants to play the hero when they can't even fix our own problems. From all the various immigrations we've had in the past years, only the Haitians have come with a positive attitude, they've integrated very rapidly to the population, and you see them working everywhere. But other nationalities just stay there at the border causing problems, they refuse to work, they won't even take any kind of food that is offered to them from the various charities that try to help them, and now with the pandemic they've added an extra layer of health issues. Hopefully any Afghanis that come here, arrive with a more positive and grateful attitude.

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From a german perspective I wanna say our government is currently getting torn to shreds here for this and it's the least they deserve for this mess and everything else they've caused over the decade. Soldiers have come forward confirming what we already kind of knew - our government knew what was happening, what was going to happen and what needed to be done. but they didn't do anything. instead they ordered to do whatever is necessary to avoid new refugees coming in. innocent people they've exploited be damned. and now they claim they didn't know anything, no, it was solely the US' fault. they gave our secret services the wrong information they claim. now I just feel deep sadness and anger for all those people who trusted us but all they're gonna get as thanks is death.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/17/2021 at 3:11 PM, Stefani said:

I mean, I partially blame Bush for getting us involved in this mess 20 years ago. But the brunt of the blame falls upon the Afghani government for being the epitome of incompetence and corruption. There was no way to save them from themselves.

The war made sense and was the right decision back in the day. Iraq was bull**** and they should have pulled out of Afghanistan a decade ago leaving only a small force behind. 

On 8/17/2021 at 8:52 PM, MikeHunt said:

I'm not super versed on the entire situation but I've been reading so many comments of people from different countries condemning U.S and Biden. I may be ignorant by saying this, but I don't understand why so many believe it's first, America's fault this all went down and second, that America needs to fix their issues? 

 

Biden has been making mistake after mistake and been blaming everyone but himself making up facts that are not true. Trumps peace deal had 2 contingencies that the Taliban had to meet in order for the US to pull out peacefully. They didnt meat either of those so Biden could have and should have postponed or stopped.  Instead he abandoned the Afghan military overnight in some places, took away their air capabilities and lied about it saying they were cowards that just didnt fight. In reality they fought in many places and have been slowly getting overrun for months now and only surrendered after they had no more air support and their president left. He also left a **** ton of military equipment beind and now the Taliban are more armed than ever. He also ordered the military to work with the Taliban and give them names of SIVs... basically a death sentence. He ignored all intel from the military and other intelligence agencies and lied about what he knew. He is to blame.  

On 8/17/2021 at 9:08 PM, bitbitboi said:

My questions is: Why does the US even step into the matter anyway? Like, it's none of their business.

 

here are some very simple but very well explained videos. USA seems to be the world police all the time because other NATO members dont pull their weight. Why did they step in? Are you serious?

On 8/18/2021 at 11:16 PM, Popcornie said:

Its heartbreaking but i really dont know what should be done to fix it. Just sending out prayers to the poor civils living there💔 

  • listen to your military leaders and stop lying about things they said and then blame them. 
  • Evacuate civilians, SIVs and Americans BEFORE you pull out the miliatry.
  • Dont leave your military equipment with terrorists
  • Dont let the Terrorists make you look weak
  • Dont ignore the terrorists murdering people and stop acting like they are legit leaders
  • Dont abandon a military force that you knew wasnt up to task overnight and take away their air capabilities.
  • Take responsibility for what you did and make a plan to make it right instead of hoping that the public will forget. 
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