OPINION: The conservatorship should only have been temporary

[Steel Magnolia]

4 minutes ago, LordofTheMoodRing said:

You can not legally strip people of their rights then just give them back. It is the last resort option for dying people. It is not like being punished or going to jail, you are denying a human of what our country has determined God Given Rights

So is this an American thing?

Similar to the whole anti-mask movement with COVID? 

I can't see this argument being made in another country...In my country, we try to help those who are struggling. 

[Steel Magnolia]

1 minute ago, nthenwkiss said:

she should not have been in one, and come on, she knows how to make appointment for ****s sake.. none of the reasons listed award a conservatorship... alcoholics who are homeless and cannot take care of themselves are not in conservatorships... my god the nerve of some people.

her parents should;ve just slapped the **** out of her and be her parents for once. take her to therapy and help her. NOT IMPRISON HER.

thats all, further discussion is worthless.

Slapped the **** out of a person in the middle of a major mental health crisis? 

I actually think my proposal of a temporary conservatorship is far more reasonable. 

[LordofTheMoodRing]

10 minutes ago, Steel Magnolia said:

For those of you posting, "It never should have happened."

Why can't you explain to me how her loved ones could have helped her?

You seem to have lots of energy to criticize, yet don't ever seem to come up with any suggestions on how she could have been helped in February of 2009. 

How have other people gotten help with out loosing their rights? 

[♔ monalisaney ♚]

1 hour ago, Hooked-On-Knee said:

 

@Steel Magnolia is right, also no idea pertaining to the evaluation thing (I'm pretty sure they got an evaluation, it was just done by a doctor whom wasn't Britney's after Britney's decline) but sure these other things you mentioned are "rights" but they (at least I def know the legal representation choice, not sure about the other but it probably can be too) can be legally waived if one is a conservatee. Is it morally right? No. But in the eyes of the law, the "right" thing happened. 

They waived her rights before the evaluation was complete and before she was a conservatee. They waived her rights so she would become a conservatee

[Oprah Winfrey.]

1 hour ago, Steel Magnolia said:

These are all things that should have been taught to her by her parents, but likely weren't, because she spent her entire teen years on the road touring. She's literally had an assistant waking her up every single morning to make it to appointments her entire life. She probably doesn't even know how to manage a full day herself 

Instead of teaching her life skills, Jamie took it upon himself to start doing all of these things for her. He made himself indispensable so that there would be more and more reason to keep him around 

I disagree with you here.

Felicia herself said Britney always called the shots 

that’s why it was so shocking to her when such a capable, able-bodied young woman was deemed mentally incompetent 

 

[Hooked-On-Knee]

2 minutes ago, ♔ monalisaney ♚ said:

They waived her rights before the evaluation was complete and before she was a conservatee. They waived her rights so she would become a conservatee

The conservatorship was granted immediately if I recall correctly, I remember someone bringing up here claiming that on the request for conservatorship, there was what they claimed a notice asking for Samuel D. Ingham III specifically to be appointed as Britney's attorney. 

This is what supposedly prevented Britney from having Adam Streisand represent her, she was already under a conservatorship and already selected a court-appointed attorney

So by being under a conservatorship, she would have been deemed "incapacitated" in the eyes of the law, regardless of evaluation. 

[nthenwkiss]

3 minutes ago, Steel Magnolia said:

Slapped the **** out of a person in the middle of a major mental health crisis? 

I actually think my proposal of a temporary conservatorship is far more reasonable. 

point made, you just want to argue.

[♔ monalisaney ♚]

1 hour ago, Steel Magnolia said:

 

1) If this is true, then let's get them disbarred. 

But I need far more evidence than what I'm seeing written on this forum.

2) If not a conservatorship, what could have been done in February of 2008 to help her:

- receive proper medical attention
- visit her children face-to-face
- allow her better safety and protection from the paparazzi, stalkers, and rabid fans (she had no security detail)

What else was available under the law that was not used?

If you want more information you need to look for it yourself, there's plenty available all over youtube and social media. Also there were other legal options that could be taken but I'm not a lawyer so I'm not familiar. Besides, Britney was a grown adult at the time, why should anybody interfer with her life even if they thought something was wrong?

[Steel Magnolia]

Just now, Britman512 said:

I disagree with you here.

Felicia herself said Britney always called the shots 

that’s why it was so shocking to her when such a capable, able-bodied young woman was deemed mentally incompetent 

 

Have you watched Stages?

Britney may have been calling the shots on her career, but Felicia was knocking on her door every morning to wake her up so she could make her first appointment. There's footage of it.

Bryan may have sounded like an *** in that interview he gave last July, but he's correct in the sense that her assistants have been doing everything for her since she was a teen...It's the reason Sam Lutfi was able to worm his way into her life in the summer of 2007. She was doing things like driving with the kids in the car without a valid license. He had to micro-manage her daily life because she didn't appear to know how to accomplish everyday tasks on her own.

[♔ monalisaney ♚]

1 minute ago, Hooked-On-Knee said:

The conservatorship was granted immediately if I recall correctly, I remember someone bringing up here claiming that on the request for conservatorship, there was what they claimed a notice asking for Samuel D. Ingham III specifically to be appointed as Britney's attorney. 

So by being under a conservatorship, she would have been deemed "incapacitated" in the eyes of the law, regardless of evaluation. 

But that is not due process, they can't just grant things just because, there needs to be an evaluation. They had to claim something for the conservatorship to be established so fast, and they did so without a proper diagnosis.

[Oprah Winfrey.]

5 minutes ago, Steel Magnolia said:

Slapped the **** out of a person in the middle of a major mental health crisis? 

I actually think my proposal of a temporary conservatorship is far more reasonable. 

 

1 minute ago, nthenwkiss said:

point made, you just want to argue.

Are you a troll? 

...

I think it’s clear they didn’t mean that Britney’s parent actually slap her but rather slap SENSE into her

[nthenwkiss]

5 minutes ago, LordofTheMoodRing said:

How have other people gotten help with out loosing their rights? 

if they tried nicely and nothing worked - a good idea would've been an involuntary hold at rehab or something or like a mental facility but less intense; more like a therapy session type of thing and maybe take her to Louisiana for a while, see old friends, old family members, make her remember her value, her worth and get her out of Hollywood for a while; let her see her kids more often and give her a break of her career.

[Hooked-On-Knee]

5 minutes ago, ♔ monalisaney ♚ said:

If you want more information you need to look for it yourself, there's plenty available all over youtube and social media. Also there were other legal options that could be taken but I'm not a lawyer so I'm not familiar. Besides, Britney was a grown adult at the time, why should anybody interfer with her life even if they thought something was wrong?

I'm not for the conservatorship, the problem is that many of those posts don't look specifically into how probate law works and how a conservatee can legally be stripped of rights guaranteed by the constitution. It's hard to argue against it, from a legal standpoint and NOT a moral point, when a lot of the evidence provided by Britney fans can be contested easily. 

[Steel Magnolia]

3 minutes ago, Britman512 said:

 

Are you a troll? 

...

I think it’s clear they didn’t mean that Britney’s parent actually slap her but rather slap SENSE into her

 

2 minutes ago, nthenwkiss said:

if they tried nicely and nothing worked - a good idea would've been an involuntary hold at rehab or something or like a mental facility but less intense; more like a therapy session type of thing and maybe take her to Louisiana for a while, see old friends, old family members, make her remember her value, her worth and get her out of Hollywood for a while; let her see her kids more often and give her a break of her career.

How do you do that without the force of the law behind you?

They tried rehab in February of 2007. Her mom tried re-connecting with her all throughout 2007.

EDIT:

It wasn't up to her parents to allow her to see her kids — it was up to the courts.

The courts had denied her because of her own behaviour throughout 2007.

Absolutely nothing worked.

[Oprah Winfrey.]

2 minutes ago, Steel Magnolia said:

Have you watched Stages?

Britney may have been calling the shots on her career, but Felicia was knocking on her door every morning to wake her up so she could make her first appointment. There's footage of it.

Bryan may have sounded like an *** in that interview he gave last July, but he's correct in the sense that her assistants have been doing everything for her since she was a teen...It's the reason Sam Lutfi was able to worm his way into her life in the summer of 2007. She was doing things like driving with the kids in the car without a valid license. He had to micro-manage her daily life because she didn't appear to know how to accomplish everyday tasks on her own.

Many celebrities have assistants...

Kim k, Beyoncé all of them have people that are paid to keep the show running 

[LordofTheMoodRing]

Hypothetically...

You can’t just waive her rights guys that is the point. What they, hypothetically, did was, hypothetically, very wrong and very, hypothetically, illegal. That is why it is such a big deal.

Unfortunately there is no formula to help someone. I have always held great respect for the Spears family.  I am just expressing my hypothetical opinion on what was done in a  hypothetical public court ruling against someone I care about. From my knowledge of the laws and rights in this country I have come to the conclusion that this Conservatorship is unlawful and unjust, hypothetically. I believe it is unconstitutional to temporarily or permanently waive your rights. I do not think a Doctor or a Judge has that power or authority. My receipt is The US Constitution and Bill of Rights. I believe the judicial system in California, attorneys, nationwide have been abusing the judicial system, hypothetically. Sorry if you don’t like my hypothetical opinion or find it too energetic and critical. I ain’t mad, just jotting down my hypothetical interpretations of the law. 

Also I personally hypothetically think Britney saved herself, I think she is that self aware and that capable and that intuitive. Help comes in many forms. From what knowledge I remember of the events at this time and with what public records show, I personally do not think ‘they’ exhausted all other options before her rights were, hypothetically, illegally removed. She seems to be not a big fan of the hypothetical loss of rights as well. Again these are just my simple hypothetical opinions on basic public information. I wish we all could have known better but we cannot change what happened. We can correct it though. The only source of help should not have been to hypothetically abused the judicial system and hypothetically break the law to strip Britney Spears of her God Given Rights as a human and a citizen of The States of America. 

Hypothetically I hope she sues the F A W K E N  Shh IT outta those hypothetical attorneys etc 
 

 

Hypothetically Of Course

[♔ monalisaney ♚]

1 minute ago, Hooked-On-Knee said:

I'm not for the conservatorship, the problem is that many of those posts don't look specifically into how probate law works and how a conservatee can legally be stripped of rights guaranteed by the constitution. 

Conservatorship attorny Lisa MacCarly disagrees strongly. Go to her social media, she is constantly saying that reva goetz had no standing in denying britney her rights. I think Lisa knows about consevatorship law

[nthenwkiss]

1 minute ago, Steel Magnolia said:

 

How do you do that without the force of the law behind you?

They tried rehab in February of 2007. Her mom tried re-connecting with her all throughout 2007.

Absolutely nothing worked.

because they hear her but no one really listened they all wanted her to get back to work to get back to being the famous blonde girl that was on top of the world. maybe thats not what she wanted. she's a smart person, i think they didn't try hard enough or didn't do it right.

a conservatorship should only be used if you are legit insane, like you forget that you have to poo and you pee on yourself and you forget to eat and lose weight because you do; you forget to take medication, you refuse to shower, you become a thread to you and others... none of that is britney - she was just heavily misunderstood.

[Steel Magnolia]

2 minutes ago, Britman512 said:

Many celebrities have assistants...

Kim k, Beyoncé all of them have people that are paid to keep the show running 

Yet Britney kept firing her assistants all throughout 2007.

What remained was Sam Lutfi, who began drugging her.

How were her parents supposed to stop that from happening without the force of the law behind them?

[Hooked-On-Knee]

3 minutes ago, ♔ monalisaney ♚ said:

Conservatorship attorny Lisa MacCarly disagrees strongly. Go to her social media, she is constantly saying that reva goetz had no standing in denying britney her rights. I think Lisa knows about consevatorship law

I'm pretty sure Lisa also knows that any person deemed incapacitated by the eyes of the law and subsequently put under conservatorship is appointed a court-appointed attorney. This is why there are bills trying to guarantee conservatees to be able to choose their own legal representation, because no law actually protects conservatees of that right