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Britney Spears’ former lawyer Adam Streisand goes deep into the details of Britney’s conservatorship.


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Nobody ever mentions the ending of the conservatorship! Even her lawyer! Because he gets paid from Britney like all of these people 

he just saying that it could have been a different conservatorship

What he wants is just a different kind of conservatorship so he still get the money 

 

I’m sad 

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4 hours ago, Tear the floor up up said:

What sort of details wasn’t he aware of?

Like his thoughts on the security of her Trust under Cship or that her conservator cannot keep her in the house, medicate her without consent, or put her in a facility against her will, and etc... He said a lot of other bs with a 'trust the system' sauce... so, yeah, ideally the system should work the way he described, i.e. to protect, but there are too many corrupt people, and he seems to deliberately downplay how much corrupt the system is...

Oh, he also said that he trusts Dr James Spar, that he is a man of integrity, lol, that's why he made no attempt to fight for Britney furtherAnd, of course, Adam didn't mention that he gave up on Britney before there was an official medical evaluation report.

 

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2 minutes ago, Gayseus911 said:

I can't wait for the day for a politician or someone A list famous to mention the fabulous glamorous Lou

That day will come with the premiere of BBC and Netflix documentaries. Of course, if Lou was included in those documentaries.

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9 minutes ago, DuranDuran said:

Like his thoughts on the security of her Trust under Cship or that her conservator cannot keep her in the house, medicate her without consent, or put her in a facility against her will, and etc... He said a lot of other bs with a 'trust the system' sauce... so, yeah, ideally the system should work the way he described, i.e. to protect, but there are too many corrupt people, and he seems to deliberately downplay how much corrupt the system is...

Oh, he also said that he trusts Dr James Spar, that he is a man of integrity, lol, that's why he made no attempt to fight for Britney furtherAnd, of course, Adam didn't mention that he gave up on Britney before there was an official medical evaluation report.

 

Thank you!

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I remember how Britneys Gram girls described how Sam Ingham, Jamie’s Lawyers (before Vivian came back) and Jodi Montgomery had nice chats and shared chips before a court hearing. They are all friends. They would still act this way if it weren’t for Free Britney. 

Just proves again an independent investigation into conservatorships is needed. 

 

They are all incompetent and don’t want to rat out their friends or the system. 

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11 minutes ago, Geralt_of_Rivia said:

I've made the effort to annotate the important bits and quote on some important things they mention. I may have missed or misheard something they've said so please don't quote me on that. What's more, I'd ask you to listen to the podcast and think objectively about what Adam and Noah are saying. In my opinion, Streisand supports Britney but he’s also trying to remain objective and works with the facts he’s being presented with. Don’t forget that he is a lawyer and he must be 100% professional about what he’s doing. The case is indeed very complex even for Adam Streisand. He was asked by Britney to represent her in court and he does so, but once he goes there, the judge tells him that Britney lacks the capacity to hire her own lawyer. AS A LAWYER, he is faced with the difficult decision to decide what’s best for Britney BASED ON THE EVIDENCE he’s got and the one he doesn’t. Unfortunately, he didn’t have her medical record and thus concluded that it’d be best for Britney if he stepped down and that’s what he ultimately did.

Once again, I know we care about, love and support Britney but we sometimes we also need to leave our feelings on the doorstep and judge objectively. Don't be too quick to cancel Adam Streisand for doing his job properly (in accordance with the evidence he had at the time).

Here are my notes and please read the final paragraph by Noah:

-        Streisand first explains what a conservatorship is and why it’s normally put in place

-        Says that the real problem of Britney’s case is that ‘we don’t really know what’s happening behind the scenes’

-        Having a conservator of the estate ensures the trustee is doing their job properly

-        They say that Britney cannot sign a contract herself about where and when to perform unless her conservator does it on her behalf whereas if there’s no conservatorship (but a trust), she’d have a trustee still managing her assets (money or real estate) but they won’t interfere with her day-to-day affairs

-        Conservatorships are fairly limited to protect somebody. Streisand explains that he often gets calls from concerned parents about their children who are adults but are struggling with **** problems to which he responds that a conservatorship will not be a good idea because you can’t really force anybody in a conservatorship to be compliant with taking medications or forcing them to go to a treatment programme, or forcing them in a lockdown facility.

-        There is a whole separate conservatorship called LPS-conservatorships in California, which allows you to lock somebody up, force them to take medication, etc. These are rare. You must prove that the person is gravely disabled and that they can cause harm to themselves. However, only facilities such as hospitals or mental health facility can ask for that, not family members or any other concerned parties.

-        The kind that Britney is in is not an LPS-one.

-        Streisand refutes that Britney can’t leave the house or take a walk, but he appreciates the concern from the public and that it is important for her case in shedding light on her situation.

-        Streisand says that the law system in California has elasticity but it’s also built on people, which means that occasionally you will find people that misjudge, that are corrupt, that might not take the right decision because they’re not that smart, unethical. However, he says that he’s yet to see a better judicial system than the one they have.

-        He says once again that no one opposed the conservatorship at the time of its placement and that even Britney was somewhat complicit with it because it’d be difficult to oppose it. Streisand says that ‘there was clearly medical evidence that she has fairly serious mental illness’ but he doesn’t know what that is.  The fact that everything was very public didn’t help her situation: Kevin not allowing her to see her kids, the paparazzi hounding her, and if you have underlying mental illness. Everyone would make anybody go out of control (not crazy).

-        It was clear that the court was going to put some protection on her. Britney’s biggest wish was to not have her father as the conservator. Then she wanted to get more control.

-        The law doesn’t say you can’t have a lawyer represent you if you’re a conservatee but they had decided to appoint a lawyer for Britney and dismissed him from the case. He says that judge Goetz was brand new to the probate court and she didn’t know Streisand, so in his opinion, she probably thought that Streisand was part of the gang that was trying to steal from Britney. He says that had she known who he was, she probably would’ve taken a different decision. In the end, she decided to appoint Sam Ingham.

-        Streisand finds it curious why Ingham never contested in the past 12 years the appointment of her father as the conservator. He says that it’s possible that Britney made another decision at the time or that the court-appointed counsel wasn’t advocating the one thing that was important for Britney.

-        Streisand says that the job of the lawyer is to represent their client’s wishes and should not be convinced in any way whether what they want is substantial. Because there’s no evidence that Ingham has been unethical, we can assume that Britney may have never expressed a desire to terminate the conservatorship; this may explain why nothing’s been contested in court in the past 13 years.

-        Streisand finds it peculiar how when he met with Britney, the most important thing for her was not to have her father as the conservator and once the court appointed Sam Ingham, that thing was never really expressed from her for 12 years until last year. Streisand asks: ‘why wait for that long?’ Why does Britney state that she doesn’t want her father to be her conservator 12 years later when that was the number one thing she wanted prior to the placement of the conservatorship? This puts the spotlight on Ingham because if he hasn’t advocated for her desire not to have her father as her conservator, then he may well not have advocated for other things too.

-        Streisand says that there’s a potential weakness in the system because it has to rely on people and in Britney’s case, there’s a conflict of interest between her wishes and her lawyer’s interests (to earn money).

-        Hypothetically, if Britney decides that she doesn’t want to be represented in court by Ingham anymore, she can phone another lawyer who can then testify in court and object Ingham’s position as a lawyer (despite the fact that Britney cannot legally sign a contract with that lawyer) OR if Britney’s unhappy with Ingham, she can tell him that she doesn’t want him to represent her anymore and it’ll be Ingham’s ethical decision then to go to the judge and say that he thinks that he shouldn’t be Britney’s lawyer anymore because she cannot confide with him anymore. Then the judge would have to decide if such a change would be appropriate.

-        Streisand says that at the time he believed that stepping down from her case could actually help Britney which is why he didn’t push to contest. Unfortunately, we don’t know what mental illness she may have.

-        He says that we can’t just look at her situation in a vacuum. If they’ve indeed used her kids against her, we have to see the other side as well. In other words, if she’s indeed mentally handicapped and does need treatment, but is a dangerous for her kids, bear in mind the other side, that in that case, using her kids against her may not be inappropriate.

-        There’s a profound uncertainty in the case and we don’t know what we don’t know.

-        Streisand asks if her case is not a case of misogyny in a system that is paternalistic. ‘He stresses that the conservator could’ve been 1000 of people. It didn’t have to be her father. If the one thing this system is designed to help vulnerable people, why in the world would you give the control and the power of the person to a person who makes her feel less in control and more vulnerable?’

Noah Feldman (the person’s podcast) concludes with the following: 

‘Under the conservatorship system as it exists, Britney does, at least in principle, have the mechanism she could use to draw attention to any dislike or dissatisfaction she has with her lawyer or with the conservatorship. But ‘we don’t know’ as Adam emphasized whether there are potential distortions in the system that nevertheless exist in which somehow Britney is threatened so that she’s unable to raise those concerns or feel she’s unable to raise those concerns. The whole issue is therefore at least as complicated, and I think actually much more complicated than it appeared to be in the documentary. And it demonstrates that power is complexly deployed in our legal system. You could be very rich and very famous and still find yourself represented by a court-appointed attorney and perhaps without the power to change the basic circumstances in which you’re operating legally speaking. At the same time, there are also available protections in the system. As Adam pointed out, Britney CAN leave her house. The conservator CANNOT in practical terms block her from doing most of the things that she might choose to do. What’s more, her assets are in trust and the trustee of that trust is not the conservator. The takeaway? Power is deployed in very complicated ways in the legal system. The legal system designs itself and tries to operate in such a way as to use mutual checks so that lawyers check lawyers and we reduce the probabilities of fundamental distortion. But, as Adam said, that process still depends to a great extent on the assumption that lawyers will behave ethically. I would love to believe, as a law professor and a person who cares about the legal system, that all lawyers are ethical but as probably every single person listening knows, that’s just not always the case. There is no magic bullet solution to the potential for unethical lawyering and it remains a challenge to figure out how legal power can be deployed as ethically as is possible.’

Apologies for any mistakes. @Slayer you might want to attach this at the beginning of the thread, if you find it useful :wink_britney_everytime_white:

His responses were very messy, first he said that they have the best legal system and then that there could be a potential weakness in the system, later that there is no evidence that Ingham is corrupt but he though it was "curious" how her conservator has been Jamie, knowing that Britney didn't want him as a conservator.

Girl bye, he's cancel for me :begone_tiffany_miss_ny_new_york_ms_door_there_leave_bye_goodbye:

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Thank you for the notes!!!

 

I understand what Adam is saying in theory. But Jamie and Andrew Wallet ran the ship different  here. They did request outrageous powers and were approved to do so. Only from 2019 her conservatorship only then started to look like an arrangement that Adam is describing IMO. 

He says one thing then contradicts himself a bit. I think he knows deep down the red flags are all over the place here but he stays conditioned to protect the system. 

 

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4 minutes ago, joe sp said:

His responses were very messy, first he said that they have the best legal system and then that there could be a potential weakness in the system, later that there is no evidence that Ingham is corrupt but he though it was "curious" how her conservator has been Jamie, knowing that Britney didn't want him as a conservator.

Girl bye, he's cancel for me :begone_tiffany_miss_ny_new_york_ms_door_there_leave_bye_goodbye:

Yeah, he was more saying that in spite of these potential weaknesses, he still believes that America has one of the best judicial systems. And of course he wouldn't say that Ingham is corrupt. He can get sued for defamation because at the moment he doesn't have facts to back up his statement. The only thing he can do is ask questions or find things "curious" and "interesting". Again, he's not just anybody but he's a professional lawyer. He needs to be careful what he's saying. 

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1 hour ago, Geralt_of_Rivia said:

He says once again that no one opposed the conservatorship at the time of its placement and that even Britney was somewhat complicit with it because it’d be difficult to oppose it.

I'll put in my 2 cents a little.  He said that she did not want Cship, but he was the one, as I understood from his words, who suggested a strategy where 1) she will not resist Cship, cuz it’d be difficult to oppose it 2) they keep the father out of Cship 3) then they would gradually try to remove the restrictions... and she accepted his strategy.

 

1 hour ago, Geralt_of_Rivia said:

Streisand says that ‘there was clearly medical evidence that she has fairly serious mental illness’ but he doesn’t know what that is.

He is sure that she has a serious mental illness, only based on the fact that he trusts Dr James Spar, Adam knows him and thinks he is a man of integrity.

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1 minute ago, DuranDuran said:

I'll put in my five cents a little.  He said that she did not want Cship, but he was the one, as I understood from his words, who suggested a strategy where 1) she will not resist Cship 2) they keep the father out of Cship 3) then they would gradually try to remove the restrictions... and she accepted his strategy.

 

He is sure that she has a serious mental illness, only based on the fact that he trusts Dr James Spar, Adam thinks Spar is a man of integrity.

I kind of disagree with your first point because he's said on multiple occasions that Britney acknowledged the fact that she knew she wouldn't get away without a conservatorship so she accepted it in the end. We've heard him say that Britney said those things, he didn't propose them. She only asked him to advocate for her wishes about not having her father as the conservator and once that was done, they could potentially continue to fight for more freedom.

The question is, why didn't we see this tactic from Ingham immediately after he was appointed as her lawyer? Why did it happen just last year? Streisand didn't have any power as the judge dismissed him with that medical record he didn't know about. And yeah, he trusts Spar because of his reputation, I suppose. 

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1 minute ago, DuranDuran said:

He is sure that she has a serious mental illness, only based on the fact that he trusts Dr James Spar, Adam thinks Spar is a man of integrity.

Yet Jamie and Andrew Wallet approved a TV appearance 2 months after then the Circus World Tour. 
The conservatorship’s intention for the estate were pretty clear. Jamie Spears at the helm of her person was disastrous.

 

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