Thoughts on Britney's 'craziness' and the abuse she's dealt with

[bachelorette]

Hey guys, 

Disclaimer: This is gonna be very long!

I've been an exhale user for ages but the last time I was active was around 10 years ago, since then I've just been lurking around reading Britney news. But I've just finished watching the Deep Dive documentary, and I really want to vent my emotions and share some thoughts that I just cannot hold inside of me (not a big social media user, so this is as good a place as any, so bare with me). I know this forum is not really the place for long discussions, so if you don't care about my thoughts, just pass by, don't be mean

I've been a Britney fan since the beginning, when I was a kid a few years younger than her. When I think about it now, I can thank Britney for most things that I appreciate about myself as a person today - speaking English (I learnt the language singing along), making music, being comfortable in my womanhood. Most of all, she gave me comfort when I needed it most. Between the Britney and ITZ eras I stopped religiously following her as I was coming of age, my music tastes broadened, I got more into indie stuff (which is a testament to the quality of Britney's music, despite what most people think about her as an artist - I grew up on her music, and it instilled a very good music taste in me). But when I was going through a bad breakup, already as an adult, in around the Circus era, I needed the comfort of her music again and started inquiring about her life and registered here. 

This was the introduction into my Britney story. Now thoughts on the whole breakdown/conservatorship situation. 

In 2007-2008, I read some news about what was going on in her life back then, distantly, and it truly shocked me. But not why you'd think. Now, it might be that I live in Europe and here we are more chill about this stuff, but I truly, really truly did not understand what the big deal about her behavior was. I started reading all these articles in American media how she's crazy, how she's an addict etc - you know what I mean. But when I actually inspected what she was up to, I just couldn't see anything that a normal 20-something person wouldn't do. Especially in her position, surrounded by these crazy paparazzi, during the divorce. I just couldn't understand what was so crazy about her? To this day, it baffles me. I watched this DeepDive documentary, and everything that they showed - I still think there was nothing wrong with her behavior, considering the circumstances. Is it an American thing? I truly don't understand. 

So this brings me to my next thought - why on earth would she need a conservatorship in the first place? I know that many of you say that it was "necessary" back then but not anymore. But in my opinion (acknowledging my limited knowledge and our lack of access to medical data, so this is pure speculation based on years of observation), nothing that she did, the "crazy things", would require such a drastic measure. We have this procedure of guardianship in my country as well, and a friend of mine put one on his elderly schizophrenic father who cannot even bathe himself.

But what I couldn't understand then, and can't understand now, is how all her actions - to me, they seemed very normal, healthy reactions - could lead to this. I thought it was an abuse back then and still think this to this day. So she partied, so she drank, so she took a few ***** (allegedly), I'm sorry, but who didn't? Kids in college in the US do so many much worse things. Personally I had already quit drinking and smoking by my sophomore year, which gives you an idea on when I had started. And her motherhood "incidents" were also ridiculously mistreated - all parents mess up somehow, it's just a matter of time, and most babies are just lucky to survive our incompetence. 

Finally, although I've always known it, but after seeing this documentary in one sitting, I have to point out the narcissistic abuse Britney suffered from her father and possibly others. I am currently coming out of an 8 year abusive toxic environment at my workplace with a narcissistic psychopathic boss. Only after three years of therapy, I was able to quit the horrible job in politics (where narcissists thrive, just like in showbiz) and see the gaslighting I've been subject to for years. I am talking about it because I am seeing a lot of posts here and elsewhere asking why Britney doesn't speak up, or why her instagram is so weird. I'll tell you why.

Manipulations that narcissists are capable of are just insane. Her father, an alcoholic, is a textbook narcissist - controlling, abusive, manipulative. For years, I couldn't quit my job because my boss manipulated me into thinking that if I quit, the whole organization will go down and over 50 people will lose their jobs because of me. The boss also made sure that whoever quit on their own couldn't get another job in this sector, showing me what they will do to me if I, the closest confidante, will quit. And I truly believed that in my gaslighted mind. I know the word now, but for years, I just thought I was losing my mind, going crazy, because someone was constantly telling me the reality is not real. Now, I can only imagine the scale of this manipulation when it's not just about some coworkers and friends but about your own kids. 

And you might think that he is doing it for the money. Maybe his allies and enablers are. But I think he truly believes that he is saving her. Knowing this kind of abuse from inside out, studying it now for over a year, I am almost sure that he thinks that everybody owes him, that he's the true victim and that without him she's nobody. And these are the kind of thoughts that he has made her think for years, gaslighting, diminishing her, making her feel devalued, second-guessing herself, shaming her for her supposed "sins". 

I've only dealt with this for a couple of years, and in a workplace - and I am still pretty damaged. Imagine that on a whole different level, and with the pressure of the whole world looking. I don't think that her instagram is weird. I think it is not weird enough, after everything. Her anxiety is a very normal psyche reaction, as a coping mechanism. To think that she was able to work so hard and so well after and during all this is just extraordinary for me - I am lucky if I can get out of bed at all, as of now. I think she had the healthiest possible reactions to the events of her life, to people taking advantage of her goodness and kindness. Kindness is a modern sin.

So there are my thoughts. Sorry for the long read. I would appreciate a discussion and, perhaps, an explanation of how exactly such normal actions and reactions by a 20something year old woman be perceived as crazy. I just can't wrap my head around it.

btw, the best source describing manipulation techniques that these people use is the channel of Dr Ramani on youtube - I think it would be great to ask her to do a video on Britney's situation, she talks about TV shows sometimes: https://www.youtube.com/user/DoctorRamanDurvasula. She explains very well why children of narcissistic parents are magnets for abusers, especially when they are empathic like Britney is. 

Please be kind

[studlygeorge]

Thank you for all of this! Ever since I was a kid I felt like I identified with Britney. The scrutiny she went through and how she prevailed was inspiring to me and her resilience inspired and helped me in my own journey with coming out. In the last couple of years I’ve identified with Britney in ways I didn’t think I ever could

A couple of years ago my family and I had discovered my father is a functioning **** addiction. This is just a small piece in this history of his really abusive and manipulative actions. My father is a textbook narcissist. Over the years he has gaslighted my mother, my sister, and I all into believing that we owe him (as you said) for all of our past sins and making us believe that all of his wrongdoings are because of us.

Ive started my road to recovery right around the time the FreeBritney movement kicked off. So to really see all of Jamie’s abusive actions and whatnots and how that mirrors my own experience with my dad has just been so insane. I’m pretty scarred from the years of hell my dad put me through, I cannot imagine the scarring and trauma Britney has been out through with the fact there is fame, a conservatorship, money, and a whole bunch of other factors mixed in. Her resilience still astounds me and I love her so much. 
 

As for how the media treated her in 2007...that’s just America. People to this day whenever they find out I like Britney go “zOMGZ REMEMBER WHEN SHE WENT CRAZY?! What was even up with that?” No one even knows why they criticized her so much. That’s just cancel culture

[Louis-j]

I agree. 

[Urbanney]

Hi! I'm happy to see your post!

Thanks for sharing your Britney story, your thoughts, and I'm sorry to hear about the work abuse you suffered.

The American media system was just garbage in the 2000s. The entire system profited off Britney going "crazy." The magazine publications, the TV networks, the paparazzi, the comedians, everyone. The American public saw it as entertainment. They loved seeing Britney become "America's sweetheart" and the girl next door, to an unbelievably famous and successful American icon, and then watching that image and that girl fall apart. Just like a lot of other American icons (Marilyn Monroe, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson), people loved the talent and success of these icons, but they also loved to watch in fascination as they fell apart. It's the equivalent of rubbernecking at a car accident while driving past. You don't want to see it, but you do.

Also, mental health was not a discussion in America at this time. I don't think most people ever stopped to really consider all of the implications of the situation that Britney was in. Not a lot of people stopped to remember that she's human, that she's been working 24/7 since she was a child, that every move of hers was scrutinized and expected to be perfect, that she has no real way of having a normal life or social life since she's been an adult, that so many people were out to use and take advantage of her, that everyone was taking charge of her life but her, etc. For them, it was coming home from work/school after a long day and seeing Britney and saying "oh look, Britney's gone crazy again and hit a car with an umbrella!" It was just another form of entertainment to most Americans, and no one had really seen a star break down so publicly and so well-documented like that maybe ever.

I agree with you 100% that her reactions were very justified, and I'm surprised they weren't worse given her circumstances. And yes, a lot of young adults and teenagers do a lot of similar or worse things than what Britney did.

[bachelorette]

2 minutes ago, studlygeorge said:

Thank you for all of this! Ever since I was a kid I felt like I identified with Britney. The scrutiny she went through and how she prevailed was inspiring to me and her resilience inspired and helped me in my own journey with coming out. In the last couple of years I’ve identified with Britney in ways I didn’t think I ever could

A couple of years ago my family and I had discovered my father is a functioning **** addiction. This is just a small piece in this history of his really abusive and manipulative actions. My father is a textbook narcissist. Over the years he has gaslighted my mother, my sister, and I all into believing that we owe him (as you said) for all of our past sins and making us believe that all of his wrongdoings are because of us.

Ive started my road to recovery right around the time the FreeBritney movement kicked off. So to really see all of Jamie’s abusive actions and whatnots and how that mirrors my own experience with my dad has just been so insane. I’m pretty scarred from the years of hell my dad put me through, I cannot imagine the scarring and trauma Britney has been out through with the fact there is fame, a conservatorship, money, and a whole bunch of other factors mixed in. Her resilience still astounds me and I love her so much. 
 

As for how the media treated her in 2007...that’s just America. People to this day whenever they find out I like Britney go “zOMGZ REMEMBER WHEN SHE WENT CRAZY?! What was even up with that?” No one even knows why they criticized her so much. That’s just cancel culture

I am so sorry about your situation and I really empathise with you. I'm glad you were able to get out. I strongly recommend the youtube channel I mentioned, specifically dedicated to this kind of abuse. It has been my lifeline throughout this year in between therapy sessions. The craziest part is that you cannot really put your finger on it, cannot really explain it to other people unless it happened to them as well. This channel helped me make sense of it. 

I understand criticizing - everybody's got opinions (although i cannot imagine most of those opinions being out in today's world). But that was something else: very normal actions framed as someone going crazy. Gaslighting on a societal level. 

[bachelorette]

1 minute ago, Urbanney said:

Hi! I'm happy to see your post!

Thanks for sharing your Britney story, your thoughts, and I'm sorry to hear about the work abuse you suffered.

The American media system was just garbage in the 2000s. The entire system profited off Britney going "crazy." The magazine publications, the TV networks, the paparazzi, the comedians, everyone. The American public saw it as entertainment. They loved seeing Britney become "America's sweetheart" and the girl next door, to an unbelievably famous and successful American icon, and then watching that image and that girl fall apart. Just like a lot of other American icons (Marilyn Monroe, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson), people loved the talent and success of them, but they also loved to watch in fascination as they fell apart.

Also, mental health was not a discussion in America at this time. I don't think most people ever stopped to really consider all of the implications of the situation that Britney was in. Not a lot of people stopped to remember that she's human, that she's been working 24/7 since she was a child, that every move of hers is scrutinized and expected to be perfect, that she has no real way of having a normal life or social life since she's been an adult, that so many people were out to use and take advantage of her, etc. For them, it was coming home from work/school after a long day and seeing Britney and saying "oh look, Britney's gone crazy again and hit a car with an umbrella!" It was just another form of entertainment to most Americans, and no one had really seen a star break down like that so publicly and so well-documented maybe ever.

thanks! 

ok, but how is hitting a car with an umbrella crazy? It may be an overreaction (although i don't think it is) but crazy? 

[Urbanney]

3 minutes ago, bachelorette said:

thanks! 

ok, but how is hitting a car with an umbrella crazy? It may be an overreaction (although i don't think it is) but crazy? 

I mean, generally, if you hear that someone has hit someone else's car with an umbrella, it's not a sign that that person is in a good place mentally imo lol.

People didn't really stop to try to think and understand why Britney did that in the first place, all they saw was this bizarre image of what was once America's sweetheart, girl next door, and *** icon as a bald, angry, grunting woman with a menacing look on her face and an umbrella. People didn't stop to think about all the paparazzi that follows her around nonstop with 0 privacy. They just saw that image and thought she was crazy.

[bachelorette]

6 minutes ago, Urbanney said:

I mean, generally, if you hear that someone has hit someone else's car with an umbrella, it's not a sign that that person is in a good place mentally imo lol.

People didn't really stop to try to think and understand why Britney did that in the first place, all they saw was this bizarre image of what was once America's sweetheart, girl next door, and *** icon as a bald, angry, grunting woman with a menacing look on her face and an umbrella. People didn't stop to think about all the paparazzi that follows her around nonstop with 0 privacy. They just saw that image and thought she was crazy.

Not necessarily. You can be a totally healthy person, mentally, but have some reserved anger, if you're more of private person, and it can sometimes get out. And in that particular situation I can even go as far as saying it was justified. I'd kick them in the balls at least lol 

But I see what you're saying. Nobody wants to get into details. Today this is even more pronounced I guess, it's just that most people are more scared to air out their stupid beliefs due to possible backlash. 

Edit: I even remembered one situation like that in my life, quite recently. Last year a guy groped me in the subway, and although this happens to every girl every now and then and had happened to me before on numerous occasions and I never reacted, that day for some reason I couldn't take it and just went bat**** crazy on the guy, found some adrenaline-led wonderwoman strength in me, hit him and dragged to the police room at the subway station. Pretty sure if someone took a picture of me at that particular moment, I would look much worse than Britney lol

[Sgt Spears deputy]

You´re my sister in mind. Finally, someone sees it the same way as I do.

[bachelorette]

11 minutes ago, Dirk said:

Everything is crazy for Americans, crazy is like their word for everything lol JK, i think it's bc of religion roots in the culture, Europe (in general) is more chill, America/USA is more Christian, religious and patriarchal. For a woman every little mistake is hysterical and crazy so...

You're probably right. I am trying to recall something similar happening to other celebrities after Britney (not counting Lindsey etc. around that same time) and I can't though. Just inventing someone being crazy. 

[MonaLisa613]

Sorry to hear what u went through, as for Britney, I think her being a mother played a big part in why people criticized her, unfortunately, here in America, to most people, they think once u become a mother, u can no longer have a life, have fun, u get the picture, lol, if it was just her, I honestly believe the hoopla would have been less.

As for attacking the paps with the umbrella, while the pics are disturbing to look at, I still have trouble looking at them, I see nothing wrong or crazy about the action, I think her being a woman played a big part in that criticism, she certainly wasn’t the first celeb to go after the paps (Sean Penn was having it out with them back in the freaking 80’s, lol) and she wasn’t the last, I truly believe if she were a man, no one would have batted an eye at any of the stuff she was doing.

[Sgt Spears deputy]

2 hours ago, Urbanney said:

I mean, generally, if you hear that someone has hit someone else's car with an umbrella, it's not a sign that that person is in a good place mentally imo lol.

People didn't really stop to try to think and understand why Britney did that in the first place, all they saw was this bizarre image of what was once America's sweetheart, girl next door, and *** icon as a bald, angry, grunting woman with a menacing look on her face and an umbrella. People didn't stop to think about all the paparazzi that follows her around nonstop with 0 privacy. They just saw that image and thought she was crazy.

Britney did not hit the umbrella because she thought this was fun. She did this because she was pissed for a good reason. She was not allowed to see her children, who were at Kevin´s mansion whish she paid by the way. She stands an hour outside because the doorbell did not work. After the visiting hour, they went to her and tell her it is too late. She said it was not her fault, she was on time, but they didn't care. And I read somewhere that Lynn was at that time with Kevin in the mansion...And Britney thought at that time that her mother slept with Kevin. (not just at this day but in general)

[SUPERJACK]

I see it as there’s a lot that we don’t know therefore can’t understand. For instance, the cship protects her from some entity or circumstance we have absolutely zero knowledge about. Because otherwise it is completely out of mind that it has perpetuated for so long. Especially since she’s proved herself as fully functioning and capable time and again.

Even more, through court docs, Britney expressed she doesn’t want the cship to be a family secret. As it seems, her team and family disagree. Thus the fans are in the dark to speculate the worst.

[mannequin19]

i wish people had been more sympathetic to her mental health struggles but i don't think her behavior was "normal." it's one thing to go to an occasional party or enjoy a few drinks, but as a parent, it was irresponsible to party & indulge in alcohol/***** to the extent that she did back then. random wigs, british accents out of nowhere, etc., really indicated that she wasn't okay. these things isolated would be fine but all of these events combined showed how much she was struggling. i love britney but she was not acting normally back then (especially because she was mid-20s, not even college aged). i dont think it warranted a conservatorship whatsoever but she definitely needed a wakeup call. i do think everyone overreacted and shouldve focused more on helping her rather than shaming her but idk. i just have to disagree with some of the things you have said. 

[PokemonSpears]

6 hours ago, MonaLisa613 said:

Sorry to hear what u went through, as for Britney, I think her being a mother played a big part in why people criticized her, unfortunately, here in America, to most people, they think once u become a mother, u can no longer have a life, have fun, u get the picture, lol, if it was just her, I honestly believe the hoopla would have been less.

thing is she was never allowed to do anything (I mean, allowed by the general public). At the beginning, because she was too young, then because she had a boyfriend, then because she married, then because she was a mom, then because she was divorced, but now that she's under control, no one bats an eye and everybody thinks is very normal for her to do all those things she's done under a conservatorship (though now apparently she can't dance in her house or not look like she's ready for a professional photoshoot, because that's like a sign of being ill or something).

 

[InZone]

I agree, her behaviour was never crazy , I think she just wanted to rebel and that’s normal in situation that she was in.

I remember when I was teenager, I started smoking cigars and everyone was like “OMG can’t belive, you shouldn’t do that, it’s ok when we are doing it, but you are this perfect guy, blah blah..”. I felt horrible and wanted to do it even more.

I can’t imagine what it was like for her having whole world judging her. She actually handled it extremly well. 

She was definitly manipulated by media at that time, it’s a miracle that she’s still in music industry after everything. 

[bachelorette]

6 hours ago, mannequin19 said:

i wish people had been more sympathetic to her mental health struggles but i don't think her behavior was "normal." it's one thing to go to an occasional party or enjoy a few drinks, but as a parent, it was irresponsible to party & indulge in alcohol/***** to the extent that she did back then. random wigs, british accents out of nowhere, etc., really indicated that she wasn't okay. these things isolated would be fine but all of these events combined showed how much she was struggling. i love britney but she was not acting normally back then (especially because she was mid-20s, not even college aged). i dont think it warranted a conservatorship whatsoever but she definitely needed a wakeup call. i do think everyone overreacted and shouldve focused more on helping her rather than shaming her but idk. i just have to disagree with some of the things you have said. 

I still think these were completely normal healthy reactions to an unhealthy situation. She wanted to get out of the house which reminded her of bad times and that her children were not there. I can totally relate to that, to me this is not a signal of someone being crazy, but rather the opposite - not devoid of empathy and feelings. As for the wigs and british accent, also, I don't think this is crazy but just a depersonalization tool as a coping mechanism. She was probably suffering from depression and possibly other things at the time but you don't put someone under these constraints because they're depressed. And certainly being depressed doesn't equal being crazy. 

[MonaLisa613]

4 hours ago, PokemonSpears said:

thing is she was never allowed to do anything (I mean, allowed by the general public). At the beginning, because she was too young, then because she had a boyfriend, then because she married, then because she was a mom, then because she was divorced, but now that she's under control, no one bats an eye and everybody thinks is very normal for her to do all those things she's done under a conservatorship (though now apparently she can't dance in her house or not look like she's ready for a professional photoshoot, because that's like a sign of being ill or something).

 

True, she was damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t since day one.

[mannequin19]

6 hours ago, bachelorette said:

I still think these were completely normal healthy reactions to an unhealthy situation. She wanted to get out of the house which reminded her of bad times and that her children were not there. I can totally relate to that, to me this is not a signal of someone being crazy, but rather the opposite - not devoid of empathy and feelings. As for the wigs and british accent, also, I don't think this is crazy but just a depersonalization tool as a coping mechanism. She was probably suffering from depression and possibly other things at the time but you don't put someone under these constraints because they're depressed. And certainly being depressed doesn't equal being crazy. 

i never said she was CRAZY, but her reactions WEREN'T healthy. coping with mental health struggles by using alcohol, ***** & partying solves nothing and can only exacerbate the issues. depersonalization is also not a healthy response, either. of course her actions weren't insane or anything that warranted her being put under a 5150 hold but she was barely coping with her divorce + custody issues & that was concerning.

[bachelorette]

1 hour ago, mannequin19 said:

i never said she was CRAZY, but her reactions WEREN'T healthy. coping with mental health struggles by using alcohol, ***** & partying solves nothing and can only exacerbate the issues. depersonalization is also not a healthy response, either. of course her actions weren't insane or anything that warranted her being put under a 5150 hold but she was barely coping with her divorce + custody issues & that was concerning.

I agree, of course she needed support. But what I'm saying is that I would be more concerned if she didn't react at all to all those events and circumstances. Alcohol, ***** etc is never good for you, but this is most people's response, and she probably didn't see a better way to cope so she did it as well as she could. I mean, this documentary says that the rehab leaked her photos... I don't remember this back then, but if you can't even trust your therapists...