Legal Questions thread

[britneyluv]

Hi y'all! 

I figured with all the legal issues going on right now with Britney's conservatorship and Voldemort's frivolous demand letter to @Jordan Miller that it might be a good idea to start a thread where anyone can get some input on the various legal topics that seem to arise on a daily basis.

For those who I haven't personally interacted with on other threads, my name's Andrew, I've been a Britney fan since BOMT, a BreatheHeavy fan since 2004, and a lawyer licensed in PA and NJ since 2014. Since there are numerous questions about the legal logistics of Britney's situation and Voldemort's bullying tactics, I figured it could be useful to have one place to discuss topics that may seem foreign or confusing to anyone who is not familiar with the court system. I genuinely enjoy being a lawyer and using that knowledge to evaluate what's going on in the Britney-verse from a different perspective. Don't want to step on any toes but hope I can answer any questions y'all might have about the latest daily developments.

Disclaimer: The information provided on this website does not, and is not intended to, constitute legal advice; instead, all information, content, and materials available on this site are for general informational purposes only. (Sorry gotta include that ).

That being said, I genuinely enjoy interacting with everybody here so if you have any questions fire away! 

 

[Politik]

Do you think there’s a chance Britney will actually be freed? Why is this being dragged for so long given all the evidence? 

[Steel Magnolia]

It sounds as if Britney may still be evaluated by a medical team (or at least a single doctor) on a daily basis.

From your understanding, was this mandated by the court, or was this a bullying tactic implemented by Jamie?

Britney mentioned in FTR that she would feel so free if this was not occurring.

It also makes me wonder if it was specific to Jamie, or if it is still being conducted under Jodi Montgomery?

I haven't followed the court documents closely enough to know.

[jj_boha]

Appreciate this! 

[MathCarmignani]

Can Lou be sued for public importunate because of all the Instagram accounts she put down, all the cease and desist orders and stuff like that that were all based on proven lies?

[Tear the floor up up]

Not sure if this is the type of question to be posted in this thread, but I've always wondered if there is law about whether people in c-ships can consent to being in relationships?

[♔ monalisaney ♚]

It seem like there is a criminal organization consisting of lawyers missusing the conservatorship system for their own gain and this seems to be a known thing. Isn't there a way for other lawyers that see this happening to get these people to lose their license to practice law? If so why hasn't anyone done that?

[britneyluv]

5 hours ago, Politik said:

Do you think there’s a chance Britney will actually be freed? Why is this being dragged for so long given all the evidence? 

It's a tough question and I've come to realize it's not as simple as her being "freed". What saddens me the most is that I feel like she has been broken down for so many years that by the time the #freebritney campaign gained traction and she started to realize she had other legal options, she might now feel incapable of making basic decisions because she's been coddled and restricted for so long.

That being said, the most important factor is removing Jamie, which I ultimately think will happen. I'm not saying the court system is perfect, and often times it's the opposite of just, but there has to be some real evidence to show that Britney may need a conservatorship in some way. None of us can know why, because those documents are sealed, and Britney owes us no duty to disclose her medical records or conditions. All I'm saying is that Jamie is not savvy enough to place Britney in a conservatorship and keep it going this long without some real evidence that it's needed in some kind of form.

However, conservatorships seem easy to abuse, because the whole point is that the conservatee is unable to properly make decisions for themselves. Jamie must have provided documentation over the years that Britney needs SOME kind of help. Nevertheless, I do think with Jamie's violent past that Britney is probably scared of him to an extent, and all the people she is surrounded by who profit off her probably convinced her over the years that being in SUCH a restrictive conservatorship is the best thing for her, which is why she never challenged it until recently. I think she might have seen the light after Jamie's altercation with Preston, because if access to her boys is what's been held over her head all these years to keep her from making any noise about her situation, yet she lost even more access to her kids due to her father, that power he held over her is gone. This is why you see her attorney taking aggressive but smart steps to honor her wishes in a way that is more likely to lead to success rather than just trying to abolish the conservatorship altogether in one fell swoop.

I can see her staying in the cship possibly indefinitely, but not in the way that it's been over the past 13 years. Appointing Bessemer is incredibly smart because they'll make sure her money is properly looked after, which is the financial side of the cship. On the personal side, she may not be comfortable to completely fly on her own just yet, which is why making sure that appointing a conservator that she trusts to look over her personal health could be the best way to gradually ease her into a less restrictive situation. For example, over the years Jamie probably just told her she couldn't do this or that and that's the way it has to be without giving any reason why. Yet if she has someone she can openly talk to who is working with her doctors to ensure she's on the right combination with her meds or whatever else she struggles with, it will ensure that she does not go fully off the rails if that's a concern for her while at the same time making sure that she's not being held under unnecessary restrictions. 

[Guest]

Courtney Love mentioned that she tried to gather some lawyers to help Britney out, but none didnt anything to do with Britneys case. Lets say they were willing to, could someone that isnt related to Britney, help her? I mean, hire lawyers to represent her in any way or try to help her on the court's matters and all the shady things happening? I mean, what do u think Courtney was really trying to do? Bc Britney doesnt have rights, she has an attorney appointed by the court. How could that even work? 

Also can her case be moved to supreme court or smt?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Tear the floor up up said:

Not sure if this is the type of question to be posted in this thread, but I've always wondered if there is law about whether people in c-ships can consent to being in relationships?

@britneyluv how can they justify that someone who has no rights, was deemed mentally incapable and was compared to someone in a coma, can date? How is that normal If Britney is treated like a child? 

Can they legally prevent her from getting pregnant or having children bc shes under a cship like Sam's makeup artist Super Maxi said? 

How can that work? If shes able to date but isnt allowed to get pregnant? I mean, legally. Its really weird to think about. 

[britneyluv]

5 hours ago, Steel Magnolia said:

It sounds as if Britney may still be evaluated by a medical team (or at least a single doctor) on a daily basis.

From your understanding, was this mandated by the court, or was this a bullying tactic implemented by Jamie?

Britney mentioned in FTR that she would feel so free if this was not occurring.

It also makes me wonder if it was specific to Jamie, or if it is still being conducted under Jodi Montgomery?

I haven't followed the court documents closely enough to know.

This is why I'm glad her attorney asked for more transparency and for the documents relating to the cship to be unsealed. Right now, we can't know whether she's being evaluated by a medical team on a daily basis or for any other kind of time frame. 

It could have been mandated by the court in order to determine whether she was remaining healthy or whether Jamie and the other conservators were falling down on the job. What's sad is that it seems Jamie did what he wanted all these years and Britney went along with it because she was scared of him. There's not much a court can do if Jamie makes a request and Britney can't openly discuss her feelings about it with her attorney out of fear. Her attorney can't make legal decisions for her based on what he THINKS she wants, but rather what Britney explicitly tells him.

This is why a neutral person needs to take Jamie's place, because this individual can take an impartial look at Britney's file and work with doctors to determine whether Britney needs to be constantly evaluated, or if it's unnecessary and merely causes her anxiety. Hopefully Britney feels more open with Jodi so they can come up with a plan that doesn't strip away Britney's freedoms while keeping her safe at the same time.

[britneyluv]

2 hours ago, MathCarmignani said:

Can Lou be sued for public importunate because of all the Instagram accounts she put down, all the cease and desist orders and stuff like that that were all based on proven lies?

What do you mean by public importunate? 

Say what you want about the Grinch, but she is savvy. She knows how to use the legal system to bully people while keeping herself free from any cause of action.

I don't know about all the accounts she put down along with the cease and desist orders, but she probably can't be sued if she merely sent demand letters out, as scary as they may be to someone unfamiliar with the law. Now if she actually sued someone, and the person who was sued can show that it was a frivolous lawsuit based on information she and her attorneys knew were false, she could be in trouble. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, britneyluv said:

It's a tough question and I've come to realize it's not as simple as her being "freed". What saddens me the most is that I feel like she has been broken down for so many years that by the time the #freebritney campaign gained traction and she started to realize she had other legal options, she might now feel incapable of making basic decisions because she's been coddled and restricted for so long.

That being said, the most important factor is removing Jamie, which I ultimately think will happen. I'm not saying the court system is perfect, and often times it's the opposite of just, but there has to be some real evidence to show that Britney may need a conservatorship in some way. None of us can know why, because those documents are sealed, and Britney owes us no duty to disclose her medical records or conditions. All I'm saying is that Jamie is not savvy enough to place Britney in a conservatorship and keep it going this long without some real evidence that it's needed in some kind of form.

However, conservatorships seem easy to abuse, because the whole point is that the conservatee is unable to properly make decisions for themselves. Jamie must have provided documentation over the years that Britney needs SOME kind of help. Nevertheless, I do think with Jamie's violent past that Britney is probably scared of him to an extent, and all the people she is surrounded by who profit off her probably convinced her over the years that being in SUCH a restrictive conservatorship is the best thing for her, which is why she never challenged it until recently. I think she might have seen the light after Jamie's altercation with Preston, because if access to her boys is what's been held over her head all these years to keep her from making any noise about her situation, yet she lost even more access to her kids due to her father, that power he held over her is gone. This is why you see her attorney taking aggressive but smart steps to honor her wishes in a way that is more likely to lead to success rather than just trying to abolish the conservatorship altogether in one fell swoop.

I can see her staying in the cship possibly indefinitely, but not in the way that it's been over the past 13 years. Appointing Bessemer is incredibly smart because they'll make sure her money is properly looked after, which is the financial side of the cship. On the personal side, she may not be comfortable to completely fly on her own just yet, which is why making sure that appointing a conservator that she trusts to look over her personal health could be the best way to gradually ease her into a less restrictive situation. For example, over the years Jamie probably just told her she couldn't do this or that and that's the way it has to be without giving any reason why. Yet if she has someone she can openly talk to who is working with her doctors to ensure she's on the right combination with her meds or whatever else she struggles with, it will ensure that she does not go fully off the rails if that's a concern for her while at the same time making sure that she's not being held under unnecessary restrictions. 

But how can she be placed under a cship meant for people with dementia or in a coma at only 26 years old and two months after be already working? That doesnt make sense at all. Shes under a cship for people who cant provide for themselves, yet she worked quite a lot from 2008-2018, earning millions she cant even control. Not only Britney provides for herself, but for her kids, her hubby, family and many other kids. Many lawyers pointed out that this is rather unusual. I mean, which other person in such a restrictive cship can work? Isnt hella shady that Britney is unfit for everything but working??? The former judge has been tied to some shady things. Jamie said she had dementia when the cship was first granted and then that was never found on court docs ever again. She was 26 at the time and the youngest person to have dementia was like 32 years old and I bet it was a rare case.

And how can someone like Jamie (with an abusive and drunk past), who never got along with Britney and failed every business he tried, managed to be her conservator? Why her rights to hire her own lawyer and many others were violated? If the cship started that way (shady af), wouldnt that be a reason to reevaluate the whole thing? 

[britneyluv]

2 hours ago, Tear the floor up up said:

Not sure if this is the type of question to be posted in this thread, but I've always wondered if there is law about whether people in c-ships can consent to being in relationships?

Great question! I don't think there's any law about whether people in c-ships can consent to being in relationships. An exception would be if they are in danger because of the choices they are making in their social/***ual lives like if they're in an abusive relationship or something similar.

For example, Britney could most likely be in a relationship with whoever she wants, but it's probably hard to meet people in her situation, so most of her boyfriends have probably been vetted by Jamie. That's why (I think?) Jamie took out restraining orders on Adnan and Sam. Technically, Britney can interact with or develop a relationship with anyone because she's not laying comatose in a hospital bed, but if her conservator thinks she might enter into a relationship with someone dangerous, they can petition the court for a restraining order that would keep that individual away from her, whether or not she wants to see them. 

[britneyluv]

2 hours ago, ♔ monalisaney ♚ said:

It seem like there is a criminal organization consisting of lawyers missusing the conservatorship system for their own gain and this seems to be a known thing. Isn't there a way for other lawyers that see this happening to get these people to lose their license to practice law? If so why hasn't anyone done that?

Another great question! I don't think it's as specific as a criminal organization, but there are definitely attorneys who misuse the conservatorship system. I'm sure there have been lawyers who have lost their license for engaging in such practices, but just like corrupt cops/doctors/judges etc., you're never going to weed out every single rotten apple since a lot of them are just con artists with a degree and know how to cover their bases.

It's tough for a court to notice on its own whether a conservatorship is being abused, and unfortunately Britney probably does not have enough people in her life who would come forward to testify as such. In Britney's case, she would need someone who genuinely had reason to believe she was being taken advantage of under the cship, and then file a petition to terminate it. The attorney for the person coming forward would then have to show evidence that the conservatorship has been abused, and the court can subpoena any relevant documents to make its decision, such as financial or medical records.

[Nightmare3p]

[britneyluv]

30 minutes ago, Bundy said:

Courtney Love mentioned that she tried to gather some lawyers to help Britney out, but none didnt anything to do with Britneys case. Lets say they were willing to, could someone that isnt related to Britney, help her? I mean, hire lawyers to represent her in any way or try to help her on the court's matters and all the shady things happening? I mean, what do u think Courtney was really trying to do? Bc Britney doesnt have rights, she has an attorney appointed by the court. How could that even work? 

Also can her case be moved to supreme court or smt?

To answer your first question, yes. Anybody can petition on Britney's behalf to end the conservatorship or appoint a new conservator, but they have to go before the court and provide evidence that the conservatorship is being abused. Say Courtney wanted to petition to remove or assign a different conservator. The best way to do this would be to find a competent probate attorney who is familiar with these laws to assist Courtney. Britney would still be represented by her court-appointed attorney, but his job would be to assess the claims made and argue before the court whether they are meritless or have actual value. The court could then review any relevant documents in making its determination, such as bank statements, medical records, etc. and ultimately decide what it thinks is best for Britney based on the evidence presented.

As for being moved to the Supreme Court, I think that's highly unlikely. First, the court overseeing her conservatorship must have issued a decision that Britney is not satisfied with. She would then petition the U.S. Supreme Court to hear her case, and the Supreme Court has no obligation to hear any case. It usually only does so if the case has national significance, reconciles conflicting decisions within state courts, or has some kind of presidential value. There are thousands of cases the Supreme Court is asked to review each year and I think they only pick 100-150, and usually these are cases that have already been decided in an appropriate Court of Appeals or the highest Court in a given state if it involves a constitutional issue. Four of the nine justices sitting on the Supreme Court have to vote to accept the case so it's pretty doubtful her case could make it that far.

[britneyluv]

41 minutes ago, Bundy said:

@britneyluv how can they justify that someone who has no rights, was deemed mentally incapable and was compared to someone in a coma, can date? How is that normal If Britney is treated like a child? 

Can they legally prevent her from getting pregnant or having children bc shes under a cship like Sam's makeup artist Super Maxi said? 

How can that work? If shes able to date but isnt allowed to get pregnant? I mean, legally. Its really weird to think about. 

No, they can't, unless they find some crazy loophole. It's not much different than a kid who wants to date someone their parents don't approve of. Legally, the parents could get a restraining order, but to my knowledge no ethical doctor is going to force feed a ***ually active teenager birth control or force them into getting an ********.

If Britney did get pregnant with someone who was not under a conservatorship, Britney might have some kind of physical custody like she does with Preston and Jayden, but only Jamie and the baby daddy would be able to make legal decisions for the baby.

[britneyluv]

39 minutes ago, Bundy said:

But how can she be placed under a cship meant for people with dementia or in a coma at only 26 years old and two months after be already working? That doesnt make sense at all. Shes under a cship for people who cant provide for themselves, yet she worked quite a lot from 2008-2018, earning millions she cant even control. Not only Britney provides for herself, but for her kids, her hubby, family and many other kids. Many lawyers pointed out that this is rather unusual. I mean, which other person in such a restrictive cship can work? Isnt hella shady that Britney is unfit for everything but working??? The former judge has been tied to some shady things. Jamie said she had dementia when the cship was first granted and then that was never found on court docs ever again. She was 26 at the time and the youngest person to have dementia was like 32 years old and I bet it was a rare case.

And how can someone like Jamie (with an abusive and drunk past), who never got along with Britney and failed every business he tried, managed to be her conservator? Why her rights to hire her own lawyer and many others were violated? If the cship started that way (shady af), wouldnt that be a reason to reevaluate the whole thing? 

That's the real issue and why it's highly unusual that she's still in such a restrictive cship. By putting Britney in a conservatorship, the court essentially took away her civil liberties and gave them to someone else, whether it's all of those civil rights or only some of them, which is why it's usually looked at as a last resort. 

We don't know whether Britney considers herself disabled or what her diagnoses are, but Jamie must have provided some significant evidence for a court to determine she is so disabled that it's in her best interest for her civil liberties to be transferred to Jamie. What we don't know is what exactly he provided to the court, what Britney specifically wants, what other options were considered before placing her in such a restrictive situation, or what her attorneys argued for on her behalf. However, the dementia claim is highly suspicious and you're right, it strains credulity that someone with dementia at 26 years old could go back to working at the level Britney did within a few months.

As for Jamie managing to be her conservator, again we don't know what exactly he presented to the court. The court may have determined Britney needed a cship and nobody else volunteered to be her conservator so the task went to Jamie. The whole point of a court-appointed lawyer is that it's a neutral attorney selected by the court to evaluate everything. If Britney never expressed a desire for him to petition the court to re-evaluate everything, the court's not just going to do it on its own. However, it seems like now Britney finally found her voice to fight for more freedom, which is why it's now being reevaluated and specifically, she-who-shall-not-be-named is gone, and Britney was able to select a financial conservator (Bessemer) and personal conservator (Jodi) to better represent her interests. I really think it's only a matter of time before Jamie is ultimately removed.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, britneyluv said:

That's the real issue and why it's highly unusual that she's still in such a restrictive cship. By putting Britney in a conservatorship, the court essentially took away her civil liberties and gave them to someone else, whether it's all of those civil rights or only some of them, which is why it's usually looked at as a last resort. 

We don't know whether Britney considers herself disabled or what her diagnoses are, but Jamie must have provided some significant evidence for a court to determine she is so disabled that it's in her best interest for her civil liberties to be transferred to Jamie. What we don't know is what exactly he provided to the court, what Britney specifically wants, what other options were considered before placing her in such a restrictive situation, or what her attorneys argued for on her behalf. However, the dementia claim is highly suspicious and you're right, it strains credulity that someone with dementia at 26 years old could go back to working at the level Britney did within a few months.

As for Jamie managing to be her conservator, again we don't know what exactly he presented to the court. The court may have determined Britney needed a cship and nobody else volunteered to be her conservator so the task went to Jamie. The whole point of a court-appointed lawyer is that it's a neutral attorney selected by the court to evaluate everything. If Britney never expressed a desire for him to petition the court to re-evaluate everything, the court's not just going to do it on its own. However, it seems like now Britney finally found her voice to fight for more freedom, which is why it's now being reevaluated and specifically, she-who-shall-not-be-named is gone, and Britney was able to select a financial conservator (Bessemer) and personal conservator (Jodi) to better represent her interests. I really think it's only a matter of time before Jamie is ultimately removed.

Have u seen some videos that gathered much information about her case? Tbh it doesnt seem that some people in her case are that honest, If u know what I mean. The former judge has been tied to a lot of shady things, the same goes to her lawyer, he was even accused by the family of another actor under a cship, of killing him. Britney spent some days in a facility and when she was out, she already didnt have rights. Its like it took the court two audiences to put her under a cship. Theres a lawyer who worked with Andrew Wallet who has been vocal about FreeBritney. She said she heard Britneys cship being called an experiment and she had her car shot some years ago. She basically called Jamies lawyers liars about saying they wouldnt be able to share some files with Sam. Not to mention Andrew also called Britneys cship a hybrid business model. I know im not a lawyer, but many things point out to her case being a corrupted one from the start. Maybe she has some issues, but would they be enough for her to be under this cship when shes fit enough to work and do other things? Bryan tried to justify the cship saying she doesnt know how to drive and make reservations, then said the cship has been good for the family! A lot of people benefit from it and who knows how abused Britney was/is, so they will try to make her stay forever to cover their *****. 

I think Britney probably expressed in the past she wanted to get out, even her brother said "she always wanted to get out", why wouldnt she say to Sam, but tbh he was silent doing nothing for 11 years until FreeBritney was born. 

This was Britney calling to another attorney. Why would she call to another attorney if Sam was listening to her and working on her behalf? 

 

And I think its sus that Sam said Britney is willing to say some things about Jamie, but hes not letting her. I mean, he and Jamie are wasting so much time with that hearsay bs when Sam could let her talk to the judge herself. Is he preventing her to do so bc he fears he might be exposed as well? Isnt that weird? Why is the judge not demanding to talk to Britney? They seem to stall everything tbh. 

I also dont trust Jodi bc she was named by Jamie himself when he had to step away after abusing Preston. 

Well, Jamie has a past that it doesnt make him look that stable or ok in the head tbh. Why dont they evaluate these people who want to put others under cships?