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Lana Del Rey is the most influential artist of the past decade


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Ok before anything else, this is a nice read. ❤

While I agree about everything you said, I just have an issue about the word 'influential' and 'pop culture force'. Everyone is free to debate with me on this buuut, I don't think one can be influential if s/he is also underappreciated and underrated. Because it takes a certain level of fame (which I don't think Lana had during the BTD era) to have 'influence' on pop culture. You can't be a 'force' if you're not that popular. That's preposterous and slightly delusional if you ask me. :mattafact: You have to be mainstream - at the very least - to be 'A force'. Which I don't think she was during that era. Of course, I'm not undermining the success of BTD but you know what I mean, right? You should, cause I know you're smarter than to take my words at face value. :mhm:

So yeah, anyway, basically my point is... just because an artist was the "first one" to do something, it don't mean she influenced a trend - let alone an entire generation or an entire landscape of a certain genre of music. Also, I have never heard of 'sadcore'. Really? This is the first time I'm hearing this. A genre was created for Lana's music? :idkney:

Anyway, that's why we have things like "popularized by". Again, just because someone did something first, it don't mean she influenced anybody who did the same thing after her. Cause i'm too lazy to go into full detail but there are a lot of artists who also did bits and pieces of what Lana has done in the past and because they were mainstream, they popularized it, and that's how it became influential. Because an A Lister's power and influence was the force that propelled that idea to the mainstream.

Let's take for example Britney's third studio album, the Bill of Rights, Britney (2001) with it's mature content and adult grownup not a girl not yet a woman themes. She smexed it up. Britney was the first one among the 4 queens of pop (Xtina, Successica, Mandy), to smex it up. But Xtina took that small idea of Slave and improved on it and multiplied it by 10000x and she gave us Stripped. Do I think Slave is influential, yes. But do I think it was the most influential smexified record of the 2000s? Hell no. It's Stripped, particularly the lead single Dirrty that did that. Xtina gave us the ultimate h0e anthem. :chrissy:

To close this, Lana Del Rey is truly a pioneer of all the things you said. But no way does that mean she is the most influential. She is a pioneer at most. :thelook:

I mean, the fact that you had to create an entire thread about this subject... i mean, right? :uknowit:

This is not a drag to Lana because I love her music. Just wanted to say that. :barbie:

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1 hour ago, Roxxy said:

Ok before anything else, this is a nice read. ❤

While I agree about everything you said, I just have an issue about the word 'influential' and 'pop culture force'. Everyone is free to debate with me on this buuut, I don't think one can be influential if s/he is also underappreciated and underrated. Because it takes a certain level of fame (which I don't think Lana had during the BTD era) to have 'influence' on pop culture. You can't be a 'force' if you're not that popular. That's preposterous and slightly delusional if you ask me. :mattafact: You have to be mainstream - at the very least - to be 'A force'. Which I don't think she was during that era. Of course, I'm not undermining the success of BTD but you know what I mean, right? You should, cause I know you're smarter than to take my words at face value. :mhm:

So yeah, anyway, basically my point is... just because an artist was the "first one" to do something, it don't mean she influenced a trend - let alone an entire generation or an entire landscape of a certain genre of music. Also, I have never heard of 'sadcore'. Really? This is the first time I'm hearing this. A genre was created for Lana's music? :idkney:

Anyway, that's why we have things like "popularized by". Again, just because someone did something first, it don't mean she influenced anybody who did the same thing after her. Cause i'm too lazy to go into full detail but there are a lot of artists who also did bits and pieces of what Lana has done in the past and because they were mainstream, they popularized it, and that's how it became influential. Because an A Lister's power and influence was the force that propelled that idea to the mainstream.

Let's take for example Britney's third studio album, the Bill of Rights, Britney (2001) with it's mature content and adult grownup not a girl not yet a woman themes. She smexed it up. Britney was the first one among the 4 queens of pop (Xtina, Successica, Mandy), to smex it up. But Xtina took that small idea of Slave and improved on it and multiplied it by 10000x and she gave us Stripped. Do I think Slave is influential, yes. But do I think it was the most influential smexified record of the 2000s? Hell no. It's Stripped, particularly the lead single Dirrty that did that. Xtina gave us the ultimate h0e anthem. :chrissy:

To close this, Lana Del Rey is truly a pioneer of all the things you said. But no way does that mean she is the most influential. She is a pioneer at most. :thelook:

I mean, the fact that you had to create an entire thread about this subject... i mean, right? :uknowit:

This is not a drag to Lana because I love her music. Just wanted to say that. :barbie:

I understand your point. How can someone be a pop culture force without being recognized by the majority as one? I agree that not everything done first makes it the best. For a tech analogy, it's similar to how Apple is never the first to release features but usually does create a really polished version of the feature when they do release it in a product. Usually when the feature is first released by someone else, there are some drawbacks.

I guess my point of view was that even though she might not be fully recognized or appreciated as a major source of influence, it doesn't mean she's not hugely influential. For example, yes, technically Lorde released her own version of alternative pop music that was more introspective, experimental, and melancholy at times compared to the rest of pop music, and she was largely more successful. But that doesn't mean Lana didn't influence that path that allowed Lorde to be successful. And if you don't have someone starting that path, how will the later developments ever form? The first development of that path is the most influential because it's the start of all the developments that follow in that path.

It's similar to politics. The two major parties in the U.S. are obviously the Democratic and Republican parties. Third parties (like the Tea Party on the right and the Socialists on the left) are the niche parties that come up with more "drastic" ideas. If they get enough support, the third parties will gain in popularity and then the 2 major parties might start to incorporate some of the third party's ideas into their platform to attract more people back. The third parties aren't really the parties that are remembered or recognized as being hugely influential, but they're often the ones being the pioneers and bringing about influential new ideas, even if they're not directly the reason they go mainstream. It's when those ideas get incorporated into the 2 main parties that it becomes very influential.

It's the same with Lana. She pioneered a lot of the these things and was the creative force bringing these ideas together. However, she's a niche, just like the third party. She's not the one being remembered for her influence because it was other people who started using her ideas in their work that became more successful to make it go mainstream. However, she is the one that started the entire "trickle-down effect" through the stuff she did.

Am I making any sense?

tl;dr: I still very well think it's possible for her to be hugely influential but not fully recognized for it.

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2 hours ago, ILikeChillinWithYou said:

I’m not a big fan of her, but my god what a thread 👏 :tiffdrink: 

I think what her career missed is THAT song, that one huge song. It was Royals for Lorde and Bad Guy for Billie. Don’t Call Me Angel could have been that, but that didn’t work.

Except she didn’t need a commercial or Billboard hit for her career to propel. Lana’s success during the rise in the social media age was essentially a huge paradigm shift from the way we think or thought of pop stars as being these larger-than-life public figures with a string of #1 hits and sales. It was a massive change in how we as a culture think about the new age of pop and celebrity. Her famous Americana infused with Lolita image, style and sound was as influential and game changing as when Britney and Gaga debuted. 

Point is, she never had to exclusively ‘sell’ herself out to the industry and managed to remain true to her artistry which I had always admired. 

Not to mention, majority of her singles during the BTD/Paradise era are ingrained in pop as cult classics. Sure they may have never really been played on radio, but they are very much recognizable.

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20 minutes ago, Urbanney said:

For example, yes, technically Lorde released her own version of alternative pop music that was more introspective, experimental, and melancholy at times compared to the rest of pop music, and she was largely more successful. But that doesn't mean Lana didn't influence that path that allowed Lorde to be successful. And if you don't have someone starting that path, how will the later developments ever form? The first development of that path is the most influential because it's the start of all the developments that follow in that path.

I would agree with you on this if only I had an idea if Lana was an inspiration or influence on Lorde's artistry. I mean, is she? Too lazy to search on Google atm and also I'm only familiar with Lorde's music but she's not someone I watch interviews of on Youtube so I don't know. :idkney:

Buuut, my question for you is. How can you say Lana paved the way for Lorde. What if Lorde also had the same mindset when it comes to her self, her artistry, and authenticity? Can you say Lorde is influenced by Lana if Lorde doesn't even care or maybe not have any knowledge about Lana's career? Just because they're the same alternative pop artist it don't mean they know each other or listen to each other's music. It's the same argument when people say Britney's influence is really Janet and not Madonna (and I agree with this). How can we say Madonna influenced Britney when our girl has been talking about Janet more than she does Madonna and we can actually see Janet's influence on Britney. Madonna may be the more influential one on a global scale than Janet is, (i mean she did pave the way for all female artists in general) but if we zoom in, like really zoom in like see it through a microscope, we see Britney Spears and Janet's influence on her artistry and not Madonna's. :mhm:

Fudge I had another thingy I wanted to discuss I forgot. I might remember it after your next reply. :haha:

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Just now, Roxxy said:

I would agree with you on this if only I had an idea if Lana was an inspiration or influence on Lorde's artistry. I mean, is she? Too lazy to search on Google atm and also I'm only familiar with Lorde's music but she's not someone I watch interviews of on Youtube so I don't know. :idkney:

Buuut, my question for you is. How can you say Lana paved the way for Lorde. What if Lorde also had the same mindset when it comes to her self, her artistry, and authenticity? Can you say Lorde is influenced by Lana if Lorde doesn't even care or maybe not have any knowledge about Lana's career? Just because they're the same alternative pop artist it don't mean they know each other or listen to each other's music. It's the same argument when people say Britney's influence is really Janet and not Madonna (and I agree with this). How can we say Madonna influenced Britney when our girl has been talking about Janet more than she does Madonna and we can actually see Janet's influence on Britney. Madonna may be the more influential one on a global scale than Janet is, but if we zoom in, we see Britney Spears and Janet's influence on her artistry and not Madonna's. :mhm:

Fudge I had another thingy I wanted to discuss I forgot. I might remember it after your next reply. :haha:

I don’t know if Lana directly influenced Lorde, but it’s more of the path that Lana built for other artists. I don’t think Lorde would’ve been as successful if there wasn’t Lana before her to already change people’s minds about what a pop star is. I don’t think people would’ve been as receptive to more introspective, melancholic, vulnerable pop music if it hadn’t already been done by Lana. Obviously these are opinions and not facts, so there’s no way to know if I’m right or not. 
 

But if I look at what things were like before Lana and then after... there was no alternative pop segment really before her and all of the things I listed above weren’t done before in recent times. And yeah, someone else probably would’ve eventually started the pop alternative segment anyways, but look at how many of the things Lana did that were incorporated into other artists’ work and pop culture in general. Again, even if someone didn’t directly take inspiration from her, she paved the path so they their more alternative ideas of what a pop star and of what successful pop music could be could actually come to fruitition. 

It can also be argued that this was just a cultural shift that was already happening. Obviously people would have had to connect with Lana’s music for her to become as successful as she did, so maybe it was just destined to happen from her or from someone else. But that doesn’t change the fact that she was the one in history that actually was at the forefront of that cultural shift and helped inspire a lot of change. 

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16 minutes ago, Urbanney said:

I don’t know if Lana directly influenced Lorde, but it’s more of the path that Lana built for other artists. I don’t think Lorde would’ve been as successful if there wasn’t Lana before her to already change people’s minds about what a pop star is. I don’t think people would’ve been as receptive to more introspective, melancholic, vulnerable pop music if it hadn’t already been done by Lana. Obviously these are opinions and not facts, so there’s no way to know if I’m right or not. 
 

But if I look at what things were like before Lana and then after... there was no alternative pop segment really before her and all of the things I listed above weren’t done before in recent times. And yeah, someone else probably would’ve eventually started the pop alternative segment anyways, but look at how many of the things Lana did that were incorporated into other artists’ work and pop culture in general. Again, even if someone didn’t directly take inspiration from her, she paved the path so they their more alternative ideas of what a pop star and of what successful pop music could be could actually come to fruitition. 

It can also be argued that this was just a cultural shift that was already happening. Obviously people would have had to connect with Lana’s music for her to become as successful as she did, so maybe it was just destined to happen from her or from someone else. But that doesn’t change the fact that she was the one in history that actually was at the forefront of that cultural shift and helped inspire a lot of change. 

Yes yes yes yes yaaaaassssssss period period period. I had to ❤ it cause you slayed it omg. I would've liked this to be present in the OP. Cause you expounded on my idea of Lana being a true pioneer. I like this argument better than the idea of Lana being a pop culture force (cause that's very debatable).

While I also believe it was bound to happen anyway, it still doesn't take away the fact that Lana was already there and already established herself by the time the shift was happening. BTD had been repackaged almost a year before Lorde's Pure Heroine. So that would mean Lana was already doing something right. She might not be the bombastic 'force' cause lbr Lorde was the force. But Lana was still there holding her ground. :comingthru:

Yes I agree with you that Lana did help pave the way for this depressing type of music or 'sadcore' as you called it, but yeah the 'pop culture force' - i love you but let go of that. :haha:

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5 minutes ago, Roxxy said:

Yes yes yes yes yaaaaassssssss period period period. I had to ❤ it cause you slayed it omg. I would've liked this to be present in the OP. Cause you expounded on my idea of Lana being a true pioneer. I like this argument better than the idea of Lana being a pop culture force (cause that's very debatable).

While I also believe it was bound to happen anyway, it still doesn't take away the fact that Lana was already there and already established herself by the time the shift was happening. BTD had been repackaged almost a year before Lorde's Pure Heroine. So that would mean Lana was already doing something right. She might not be the bombastic 'force' cause lbr Lorde was the force. But Lana was still there holding her ground. :comingthru:

Yes I agree with you that Lana did help pave the way for this depressing type of music or 'sadcore' as you called it, but yeah the 'pop culture force' - i love you but let go of that. :haha:

Aw thanks, this made me smile. And thank you for fostering such a great discussion :hugs:

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17 minutes ago, Urbanney said:

Aw thanks, this made me smile. And thank you for fostering such a great discussion

Well, you made several good points. Let's just that. I like a good debate when it's someone I know who can level with me. And I like it when people can throw good points back at me. You just earned my respect after this discussion. Not that you didn't have it prior to this but I mean, you really showed me who you are today and I like that. I like when people show me that they're not basic. :comingthru:

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6 minutes ago, Roxxy said:

Well, you made several good points. Let's just that. I like a good debate when it's someone I know who can level with me. And I like it when people can throw good points back at me. You just earned my respect after this discussion. Not that you didn't have it prior to this but I mean, you really showed me who you are today and I like that. I like when people show me that they're not basic. I know now who you are. :comingthru:

Aw thanks! I’m very glad to hear your perspective and to have someone passionate enough to respond to the topic with a lot of thought. I was really afraid I’d write the OP and get minimal responses lol, so it was really nice to hear your thinking. 

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Just now, Urbanney said:

Aw thanks! I’m very glad to hear your perspective and to have someone passionate enough to respond to the topic with a lot of thought. I was really afraid I’d write the OP and get minimal responses lol, so it was really nice to hear your thinking. 

As much as I love messy threads and playing around, I appreciate when there's a lot of thought put into writing something. And I felt that this is coming from a place of love and stanship and I admire that. I don't like when something is born out of frustration about their humble underrated D List platinum selling faves. :ehidk: I'm just new here so I really don't have that much of understanding about legacy members like you except for the brief moments when you pop off in certain topics. I'm happy that you showed up today cause I haven't really seen what I wanted from you in the two months that I've been here and the rare moments in which you do, I felt like there's much more to you. So thank you and I want you to know that I respect you, Urbanney. :barbie:

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1 hour ago, Roxxy said:

As much as I love messy threads and playing around, I appreciate when there's a lot of thought put into writing something. And I felt that this is coming from a place of love and stanship and I admire that. I don't like when something is born out of frustration about their humble underrated D List platinum selling faves. :ehidk: I'm just new here so I really don't have that much of understanding about legacy members like you except for the brief moments when you pop off in certain topics. I'm happy that you showed up today cause I haven't really seen what I wanted from you in the two months that I've been here and the rare moments in which you do, I felt like there's much more to you. So thank you and I want you to know that I respect you, Urbanney. :barbie:

Thank you, I appreciate that! I respect you too! I like making threads/topics like these, but they’re lowkey exhausting to make since I’m basically formulating very informal papers lol. Like the OP here took me over an hour to make. I do like to give quick responses to threads, but I can also be a lurker a lot if I just don’t feel like what I have to say is worth writing out.

That’s why I appreciate that you took the time to formulate such good responses after I wrote all that out. I appreciate it in really every thread you do, because I do notice you taking the time to do it often. 

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1 minute ago, Urbanney said:

Thank you, I appreciate that! I respect you too! I like making threads/topics like these, but they’re lowkey exhausting to make since I’m basically formulating very informal papers lol. Like the OP here took me over an hour to make. I do like to give quick responses to threads, but I can also be a lurker a lot if I just don’t feel like what I have to say is worth writing out.

That’s why I appreciate that you took the time to formulate such good responses after I wrote all that out. I appreciate it in really every thread you do, because I do notice you taking the time to do it often. 

Aww thank you for saying that, and for noticing. ❤ Sadly, I tried my hand at creating threads but none of them have gone on to be platinum selling albums. :haha: That's why I gave up on making them. I'm fine being a singles artist now. :barbie:

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25 minutes ago, Urbanney said:

Thank you, I appreciate that! I respect you too! I like making threads/topics like these, but they’re lowkey exhausting to make since I’m basically formulating very informal papers lol. Like the OP here took me over an hour to make. I do like to give quick responses to threads, but I can also be a lurker a lot if I just don’t feel like what I have to say is worth writing out.

That’s why I appreciate that you took the time to formulate such good responses after I wrote all that out. I appreciate it in really every thread you do, because I do notice you taking the time to do it often. 

:mcry: loving all the energy put into this thread. Main paged! 

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6 hours ago, ILikeChillinWithYou said:

I’m not a big fan of her, but my god what a thread 👏 :tiffdrink: 

I think what her career missed is THAT song, that one huge song. It was Royals for Lorde and Bad Guy for Billie. Don’t Call Me Angel could have been that, but that didn’t work.

"summertime sadness" tho

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