From Mariah to Britney Spears: 90's pop singers have lost space for new generation

[Soni]

7 minutes ago, Kiiddy said:

I'm not the one that's confused mate. I never said Britney introduced dub-step. 
Dub-step was an underground genre. Did you not know that?
Katy, Nicki and Ke$ha have NEVER had even ONE single ALBUM that has even had ELEMENTS of dub-step all throughout their entire albums.
Did you know that as well? They may have had a few songs here and there with a little bit of dub-step, but never an entire album
or career in music where they trended it into the mainstream. FF was NEVER EVER inspired by KESHA. Kesha CO-WROTE only ONE song.
She didn't produce that song did she? So why are you even bringing that up? How is that even a point? 
You've got it all the wrong way round. Those stars followed Britney's sound.
Britney was the one that made dub-step trend into mainstream pop before they did.
Rihanna's Rated R did not trend dub-step into mainstream pop music, not was she the first to use it either in her music.
So again what are you talking about?
 

I said Britney introduced it in pop music..
I never said Katy,Nicki OR Kesha had anything to do with dub-step.

Max Martin and especially Dr Luke(the maker of 4/5 of Kesha's hits at that time) were looking with one eye at Kesha's music while making the main singles of FF FOR SURE.
Maybe they followed what Britney introduced but Britney followed right back what they redid in their own style. (but FF is closer to Kesha than Blackout/Circus are)

about the Rihanna discussion, look at the first comment of this page to see what I meant.

[Kiiddy]

1 minute ago, Soni said:

I said Britney introduced it in pop music..
I never said Katy,Nicki OR Kesha had anything to do with dub-step.

Max Martin and especially Dr Luke(the maker of 4/5 of Kesha's hits at that time) were looking with one eye at Kesha's music while making the main singles of FF FOR SURE.
Maybe they followed what Britney introduced but Britney followed right back what they redid in their own style. (but FF is closer to Kesha than Blackout/Circus are)

about the Rihanna discussion, look at the first comment of this page to see what I meant.

They weren't though because they went into a sound that Ke$ha wasn't doing. So I don't get what you mean by that.
Ke$ha wasn't doing albums with dub-step and trance mixed with dance and electro pop. Britney did though!
Ke$ha was doing synth-pop albums blended with techno, dance and electro. So again you're incorrect with that statement. 
 

[GemmaTeller]

Well of course...the 90s was 18-27 years ago things change especially in pop. 

[Soni]

12 minutes ago, Kiiddy said:

They weren't though because they went into a sound that Ke$ha wasn't doing. So I don't get what you mean by that.
Ke$ha wasn't doing albums with dub-step and trance mixed with dance and electro pop. Britney did though!
Ke$ha was doing synth-pop albums blended with techno, dance and electro. So again you're incorrect with that statement. 
 

Kesha and Britney sounded similar at that time.
Believe what u want.
I never said that Kesha was doing dubstep and u continue to suggest that I did. anyways look at the bolded statements in the quote by you.I think

 

Anyways:
about FF -

Quote

incorporating dance-pop and electropop styles with elements of dubstep, techno, and trance in its sound.

About Animal -

Quote

draws from the electropop genre, while incorporating elements of dance-pop in its production and beats.

if this is what u mean..but I can still say that they are MAINLY electropop and dance-pop as stated on the infos in the Genre section so I don't know why are u trying to make that Kesha and Britney's sound is different when the only difference in those albums are that Britney had some songs that had dubstep and trance in them.(It's even like you are saying that a song can't have a similar sound to another song just because there are a few different elements and effects).

 

hmm our arguments really look like they are going trough one and the same and we are getting to nowhere..it is still fun arguing tho so I might not stop after all

 

[Nando.]

On 14/01/2017 at 4:50 PM, Nova Terra said:

that last sentence is so true. these older singers are now focusing more on marketing, tv stuff, etc. because it makes them more money than selling records, sadly...

Wrong

britney did ALL of that when she was the it girl

just because she didnt have instagram at the time doesnt mean she wasnt advertising herself as a brand

she was in a toyota commercial for christs sake

she wasnt selling her music

people have to realize SHEs the one done with it. Madonna hasnt been sucessful her whole career, and shes still here not because of her music but because she wants to make people think and be controversial in her acts. People need to stop comparing artists. If I were 20 years into the same business id be counting my money on a big bed all day

[Kiiddy]

43 minutes ago, Soni said:

Kesha and Britney sounded similar at that time.
Believe what u want.
I never said that Kesha was doing dubstep and u continue to suggest that I did. anyways look at the bolded statements in the quote by you.I think

 

Anyways:
about FF -

About Animal -

if this is what u mean..but I can still say that they are MAINLY electropop and dance-pop as stated on the infos in the Genre section so I don't know why are u trying to make that Kesha and Britney's sound is different when the only difference in those albums are that Britney had some songs that had dubstep and trance in them.(It's even like you are saying that a song can't have a similar sound to another song just because there are a few different elements and effects).

 

hmm our arguments really look like they are going trough one and the same and we are getting to nowhere..it is still fun arguing tho so I might not stop after all

 

Nevermind man you don't understand 
 

[Soni]

5 minutes ago, Kiiddy said:

Nevermind man you don't understand 
 

ugh I've been waiting for all this time to not get an argument back??

[Curious_1110]

2 hours ago, Kiiddy said:

Britney was one of the first mainstream pop female artists during that time to really deliver an album that was experimenting with dub-step for sure!
You're also correct with Rihanna's 'Talk That Talk' album. That album experimented with dub-step too. 
Though that album was released at the end of 2011, so you could call Rihanna's album a trend-chasing album, but not necessarily Britney's.
Britney's FF album however was recorded during 2009 and 2010, then released in the beginning of 2011.
 

You know her team gets a really bad rep on this site but they've been pretty consistent throughout her career with keeping her slightly ahead of the game. 

[Kiiddy]

Just now, Soni said:

ugh I've been waiting for all this time to not get an argument back??

Why tbh? I would only just keep proving how utterly wrong you are  

 

[Soni]

11 minutes ago, Kiiddy said:

Why tbh? I would only just keep proving how utterly wrong you are  

 

whatever helps u sleep at night sunshine

[Kiiddy]

13 minutes ago, Soni said:

whatever helps u sleep at night sunshine

You're adorable x    

[Soni]

@ICouldntThinkOfOne nothing to say huh?

[PBoy]

It's her choise tbh! She had 10 years of carrer with Circus and still on top of the game, you rarely can say anyone goes that far and being n#1, what stands for today is that she doesn't care about it, it's not like she is heavly promoting and failing, no, she is not even doing that, she just released an album and all she does is Vegas which is a success over 3 years, when she puts herself into something 100% it hardly fails, but BJ and GLORY were just albums, they didn't even had eras just to start with, what? Two music videos, you need more than that, FF she was mess, but she had Tv Peformances, World Wide Tour, Interviews about the ALBUM, and the album was always the theme, so i believe when she puts the damn POM apart, and focus on album with an ERA, i won't say it will go as Bomt,Oidia,Britney,Itz,Circus or FF, but i'm sure it will be better than the last 2

[ICouldntThinkOfOne]

On 1/16/2017 at 0:49 PM, Soni said:

@ICouldntThinkOfOne nothing to say huh?

about what?

[Soni]

15 hours ago, ICouldntThinkOfOne said:

about what?

you downvoted me

I was interested in why u disliked my argument

[ICouldntThinkOfOne]

1 hour ago, Soni said:

you downvoted me

I was interested in why u disliked my argument

because you missed the point completely. Britney wasn't inspired by Kesha because Electro-Pop. Synth Pop, which Gaga kinda brought back to the forefront, and electro sounds were in. Kesha's music was branded ''electropop'' to make it sound different, it wasn't, as big a kesha fan as I am, its dated and generic. 

Britney's FF did introduce dubstep into a more mainstream audience, but to say its all thanks to Kesha that Femme Fatale was electronic or synth driven? please.

Also, if you're mentioning people for downvotes, you might want to rethink your approach.

[Soni]

42 minutes ago, ICouldntThinkOfOne said:

because you missed the point completely. Britney wasn't inspired by Kesha because Electro-Pop. Synth Pop, which Gaga kinda brought back to the forefront, and electro sounds were in. Kesha's music was branded ''electropop'' to make it sound different, it wasn't, as big a kesha fan as I am, its dated and generic. 

Britney's FF did introduce dubstep into a more mainstream audience, but to say its all thanks to Kesha that Femme Fatale was electronic or synth driven? please.

Also, if you're mentioning people for downvotes, you might want to rethink your approach.

Again, FF's main singles are sounding like Kesha's sound.(which is normal cuz the producers were the same)
I am not saying that FF was electro cuz Kesha "made it" famous (although we can say that it was electro cause it was the trending sound back then (sound which Kesha was probably the best selling in then (8/9  of her singles then were top 10 hits and platinum)) which shows that FF still followed a trend)
(although I think Britney kinda brought the electro sound with Blackout, which Gaga continued it (around 2009) with her debut and changing it with her next album, then the electro sound with the coming of Kesha (around 2010))
And how the **** does branding someone's music "electropop" around 2010 make it sound different?!(what kind of a made up fact too??)

I still don't get why u guys are bringing up the dub-step thing into this?
I didn't deny that FF brought it into the mainstream and I definitely didn't say that it was all thanks to Kesha.But, again, Kesha was the main hit-maker then with that sound and that is one of the reasons why the FF singles have a sound very similar to Kesha's... so.. she was kinda one of the big reasons. 

(we are talking about a thin line here..FF was electro but not mainly because of Kesha's success, the main FF singles were electro but not mainly because of Kesha's success.But the main FF singles did have the Kesha kind of sound into them (maybe to make them a hit OR just because the producer (who worked with Kesha) just didn't know/want to make it a completely different sound.)

anyways ima say this so you wouldn't feel the need to say something about it...FF had dub-step in 2 (one of which Kesha has credit in) of her main singles but they were the most Kesha sounding too. (and.. "a song can have a similar sound to another song, it wouldn't matter if it has different effects,elements and etc".)

 

 

Why should I rethink my approach tho? Did I call u a bad name or disrespect u in any way? :D
I prefer to get an answer instead of just a plain negative rep which doesn't give me any explanation to why you think I am wrong.
I am honest, my views changed/got more clear with this argument.
The FF album is not following the Kesha sound as a whole.I still believe the main singles are tho.
I just want to know your thoughts on things like these because I am sometimes sick of seeing cliche comments on topics and lazy people upvoting opinions which are the closest to their own.

[ICouldntThinkOfOne]

4 hours ago, Soni said:

Again, FF's main singles are sounding like Kesha's sound.(which is normal cuz the producers were the same)
I am not saying that FF was electro cuz Kesha "made it" famous (although we can say that it was electro cause it was the trending sound back then (sound which Kesha was probably the best selling in then (8/9  of her singles then were top 10 hits and platinum)) which shows that FF still followed a trend)
(although I think Britney kinda brought the electro sound with Blackout, which Gaga continued it (around 2009) with her debut and changing it with her next album, then the electro sound with the coming of Kesha (around 2010))
And how the **** does branding someone's music "electropop" around 2010 make it sound different?!(what kind of a made up fact too??)

I still don't get why u guys are bringing up the dub-step thing into this?
I didn't deny that FF brought it into the mainstream and I definitely didn't say that it was all thanks to Kesha.But, again, Kesha was the main hit-maker then with that sound and that is one of the reasons why the FF singles have a sound very similar to Kesha's... so.. she was kinda one of the big reasons. 

(we are talking about a thin line here..FF was electro but not mainly because of Kesha's success, the main FF singles were electro but not mainly because of Kesha's success.But the main FF singles did have the Kesha kind of sound into them (maybe to make them a hit OR just because the producer (who worked with Kesha) just didn't know/want to make it a completely different sound.)

anyways ima say this so you wouldn't feel the need to say something about it...FF had dub-step in 2 (one of which Kesha has credit in) of her main singles but they were the most Kesha sounding too. (and.. "a song can have a similar sound to another song, it wouldn't matter if it has different effects,elements and etc".)

 

 

Why should I rethink my approach tho? Did I call u a bad name or disrespect u in any way? :D
I prefer to get an answer instead of just a plain negative rep which doesn't give me any explanation to why you think I am wrong.
I am honest, my views changed/got more clear with this argument.
The FF album is not following the Kesha sound as a whole.I still believe the main singles are tho.
I just want to know your thoughts on things like these because I am sometimes sick of seeing cliche comments on topics and lazy people upvoting opinions which are the closest to their own.

I've never heard any kesha in them, unless you count TTWE which was written by Kesha. Hold it against me has no similarities to kesha. I Wanna Go doesn't either and Criminal sounds nothing like a Kesha song. Dr. Luke makes generic music, but he did something right with Femme Fatale. The instrumental tracks could've been basic cookie cutter pop, but he changed them up a little. I personally don't view FF as a brilliant album. Kesha's music was generic synthpop, that was all about image and nothing else for the most part.

Kesha was the biggest seller, but she wasn't the one who made the sound. That sound was around for awhile before Kesha was. Kesha's sound came from the fact that synthpop was big, and they saw a selling point with Kesha. 

Kesha's whole shtick was spoken rap/sang over rough tracks. Nothing on femme fatale is rough. None of the songs sound like a kesha song (unless you count the one she wrote). Unless you count the incredible vague and popular songs about ***/party, there's no kesha influence on the album

Also, there was no dubstep in TTWE, IWG or Criminal. It was only in one single. 

If you feel the need to @ anyone who votes you down, you should rethink your approach. I very much doubt you comment on every single thread you view.

[Soni]

18 hours ago, ICouldntThinkOfOne said:

I've never heard any kesha in them, unless you count TTWE which was written by Kesha. Hold it against me has no similarities to kesha. I Wanna Go doesn't either and Criminal sounds nothing like a Kesha song. Dr. Luke makes generic music, but he did something right with Femme Fatale. The instrumental tracks could've been basic cookie cutter pop, but he changed them up a little. I personally don't view FF as a brilliant album. Kesha's music was generic synthpop, that was all about image and nothing else for the most part.

Kesha was the biggest seller, but she wasn't the one who made the sound. That sound was around for awhile before Kesha was. Kesha's sound came from the fact that synthpop was big, and they saw a selling point with Kesha. 

Kesha's whole shtick was spoken rap/sang over rough tracks. Nothing on femme fatale is rough. None of the songs sound like a kesha song (unless you count the one she wrote). Unless you count the incredible vague and popular songs about ***/party, there's no kesha influence on the album

Also, there was no dubstep in TTWE, IWG or Criminal. It was only in one single. 

If you feel the need to @ anyone who votes you down, you should rethink your approach. I very much doubt you comment on every single thread you view.

Naah.I still feel like her sound was pretty followed and that was what was leading the electro pop.
at this point I can't say anything else I haven't said already..

And Kesha's "shtick"? maybe about rapping over tracks but I am talking about her sound..overall.

TTWE has a dubstep breakdown so that makes 2 singles with dubstep as I said.

I still don't get why I should rethink my approach.You still aren't giving me an exact answer.
And why should I comment on every single thread?? If it is something interesting then yes I will.But I didn't say that people SHOULD comment on everything.I've said that too many people comment stuff that they KNOW will give them upvotes.
I simply want to know why people downvote me at least when I am in a discussion which the reason could be anything.
It will be understandable if (for example) a thread was asking "should britney retire" and I commented "yes".I would know why people would downvote me.It wouldn't be because I didn't write it well or didn't put an emoticon or some ****.
 

[KeepOnRockin']

On 14-1-2017 at 10:07 PM, ICouldntThinkOfOne said:

I don't agree with the first paragraph at all. Madonna rose to fame during a time where people had word of mouth and general media (Newspapers, and TV). She has said herself that she had the space to make mistakes without the world watching. Britney didn't have this at all, when Britney was at the age where she could (legally) go out and party, she had hundreds of press on her. That's not just a 'freak out', its insanity, its dehumanizing, its hell on earth. Its the reason most people would kill themselves.

JLo was always famous, but she never had the same reach as Britney, and the quality of her music took a huge dip (and thats saying something), Christina was always on someone else's coat tails, and the same thing happened her: she released two terrible albums. Mariah's voice is incredibly damaged from overwork (thanks to her management), and the quality of her music took a dip in comparision to her previous works (but by saying that, she did have her big singles even up to 2009). It wasn't that they didn't take risks, its that they were all too late in the wrong direction.

Circus was safe, Femme Fatale was even more so, Britney Jean was her big flop album (which was bound to happen and rightly so) and Glory was a step in the right direction, but I think the GP are waiting on something far more personal, but its clear that Britney does not want this, and is happy to stay out of the spotlight as such.

Taylor Swift refused to let anyone stream her music, let alone stream it. People were forced to buy it. Beyonce is riding on trends (come on, I mean 2013 was all about feminism, 2016 was about racism, however she has never made a single statement herself), and the album suprise releases make the album a novelty, rather than good. 

If she wants to be bigger, she needs to scrap her team completely and/or open up about issues, but she won't, she's moved on and has found a happy medium.

Single best thing I have ever read on this forum